Posted on 05/27/2006 12:19:00 PM PDT by calcowgirl
Shouldn't environmentalists be supporting sustainable agriculture? If we still hunted and gathered on land as we do in the sea, we would all be starving to death today. If the meal fed to farm fish is questionable (contains fish parts, for instance), then campaign for better quality feed.
And how does salmon poop rate as "pollution", anyway? It's the same stuff salmon produce in nature, but concentrated in a small area. If this causes local problems, we can distribute it to where it does more good, just as with feedlot waste on land.
thanks for the post capt. P. with all the usual b.s. rhetoric about enviros on this site and elsewhere, people forget the fact that the devil is always in the details. fish farming can be highly benficial if done right (like the Chinese have been doing for centuries, creating mini environments in their farms by raising different kinds of aquatic life together) or it can really get screwed up (like Salmon farming, wild Salmon is much better for you than farmed Salmon). You can't have a system that works if there isn't some kind of regulation going on to make sure everyone is on the same page. Of course, if you're regulating the wrong approach ...
well TT, since you decided to go off subject to bash cali, i can think of a few things left to say. Here's some excerpts from another SFGATE.COM article:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/05/26/MNGETJ2Q151.DTL&hw=Lay+Skilling+California&sn=004&sc=601
Former Enron overlords Kenneth Lay and Jeffrey Skilling are going to jail because they defrauded investors and lied about their financial shenanigans. But for millions of California ratepayers still saddled with sky-high power bills from the 2000 energy crisis, these guys are finally getting their comeuppance for ripping us off.
"They didn't get convicted on charges of market manipulation in California," acknowledged Peter Darbee, chief executive of San Francisco's PG&E Corp. "But it's good to see some of the people involved in that being called to account."
"I will not be losing any sleep over this," Darbee said of Lay and Skilling being fitted for prison stripes.
"I would vastly prefer that they were convicted for their crimes in California," said former Gov. Gray Davis, who was handed his hat by California voters in the 2003 recall election largely because of the energy crisis. "But I take solace that they'll be going to jail for a long time."
He said Lay's and Skilling's conviction is "not pure justice, but it's poetic justice."
Loretta Lynch, who served as president of the California Public Utilities Commission during the energy crisis, shared this sentiment. Now she teaches at UC Berkeley and is writing a book about her experience as the state's top energy cop.
"I'm glad they got convicted," Lynch said. "But they're still shirking their responsibility to California consumers."
It's almost comical now to recall the petty schemes employed by Enron traders to manipulate electricity prices and transfer billions of dollars from the pockets of California ratepayers to the company's Houston headquarters.
Remember "Death Star"? That was Enron's name for a program in which the company billed Californians to relieve congestion on the power grid during threats of blackouts. In reality, there wasn't any congestion, and Enron wasn't providing any relief.
"The net effect of these transactions is that Enron gets paid for moving energy to relieve congestion without actually moving any energy or relieving any congestion," the company's own lawyers said in an internal memo released in 2002 by federal investigators.
"These two gentlemen substantially contributed to a $45 billion fleecing of this state," said Michael Shames, executive director of the Utility Consumers' Action Network, a San Diego advocacy group. "Seeing them go to prison for financial problems is like seeing Al Capone go to jail for tax evasion."
California Attorney General Bill Lockyer ... in 2001. He commented at the time that he "would love to personally escort Lay to an 8-by-10 cell that he could share with a tattooed dude who says, 'Hi, my name is Spike, honey.' "
Somebody let Spike know. His cellmate's on the way.
Yes, TexasTranplant. It is "Texas" and out here in California we view these gentlemen as shining examples of the true nature of Texas values. Now what do you have left to say?
oh and one more thing TT. back then plenty of people in the red states, including Texas, were blaming the whole thing on the enviros "they wouldn't build power plants etc." In spite of the fact that the whole thing looked fishy from the get go. Well as we now know, there were actually plenty of power plants and the enviros were (yet again) being used as scapegoats by the political right to cover the a$$e$$ of a bunch of crooked rich white guys. Gee, big surprise there.
Your Tagline Sucks, but it does fit you.
TT
'Are you over the whole Gray Davis thing yet?'
Dude, why the hell do you think we voted in the Governator?
*note: prime evidence of clueless Texan.
'While you sulk I am going to fire up my BIG 4WD Diesel Truck and tool around looking at our Texas Power Plants (We don't need anything from you Enviro Nut Jobs)'
I've been to Texas so I understand. With the exception of Austin (great music scene) and some neat caverns to the south of that fine city, there really isn't much else to do in that state except tool around looking at power plants. I suppose one could go to a Cowboys game for a good laugh.
'Crooked Rich White Guys go to Jail these days'
FINALLY! Took how long?
'Welcome to FR, you won't be around long.'
HA! A lot you know.
* more evidence of clueless Texan
And hey, at least my tagline is in English, not some dead language from an extinct empire.
1.2? I didn't think even tilapia were that efficient.
"And hey, at least my tagline is in English, not some dead language from an extinct empire."
But your name is modusoperendi? I thought it was "modus operAndi", unless your name refers to the band Red Animal War, here: http://www.songmeanings.net/artist.php?aid=8325 Then I guess your name is just a misspelling of a term from some dead language from an extinct empire.
Just ignore that clown
Next week we won't even remember who "it" was.
TT
The enviro-wackos deeply desire the restoration of the Stone Age standard of living--without the benefit of cooking or other fires and the extra constraints of exorbitant confiscatory taxation and mandatory vegan diets.
Why?
Heavy metals, supposedly.
I never liked Heavy Metal.
I much prefer good ol' Rock & Roll. ;-)
[snip]
There are currently no finfish aquaculture operations on the California coast.
Nor will there be, simply because the water is too warm. Successful fish farms are in Alaska, Canada, Scandanavia, and Chile for that reason.
They ought to rename this moron, "Joe Simian."
Mojave- I was using tilapia as an example, in fact- and 1.2FCR is the textbook best possible average... in reality, I got 1.5 at best on the operation I ran for a short time.
As for the other- 'pollution' from waste is sort of a misnomer- what it really means is that the nutrients released (think fertilizer) from the breakdown of fish waste are extremely heavily concentrated- diluting them down is usually the only option, economically speaking. Collecting the waste has been tried, but is so expensive right now (for ocean culture, at least), that it sucks up all the profits.
I dunno- this is a really complex one, guys. There is so much in the way of pros and cons to increasing the amount of mariculture done here in the US.
BTB, about 85% of the farmed salmon we buy in the US comes from foreign sources- they've got better growing conditions than we do, in Chile, especially... The market for salmon, the only real successfully-farmed marine species, is 100% globalized. There are NO companies with exclusively-located farms in the US.
To Blazing Arizona, Fish feed is the #1 expense for feading high-value fish. The meal in fish feed MUST have a lot of protein, which optimally comes from animal-derived sources, which has to come from inexpensive sources to keep the cost of feed down. There's a concern that if global pen aquaculture increases sharply, demand for fish meal will increase the amount of 'Industrial' fishing for trash fish, causing a loss of forage feed for wild stocks.
Also, fish meal is mostly used for cat food. It's getting very expensive.
Tilapia are pretty incredible critters. Hard to see how an American operation could compete with imports from Costa Rica.
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