Drone's Video May Aid Marine Inquiry

Washington Post via washingtonpost.com ^ | May 30, 2006 | Thomas E. Ricks

[Lancey Howard]

Military investigators piecing together what happened in the Iraqi town of Haditha on Nov. 19 -- when Marines allegedly killed two dozen civilians -- have access to video shot by an unmanned drone aircraft that was circling overhead for at least part of that day, military defense lawyers familiar with the case said in interviews.

It is unclear whether the video obtained from that day's flight captured the violence, said the lawyers, who have consulted with Marines who were there. One lawyer said investigators have reviewed surveillance footage taken hours after the shootings, which showed the Marines returning to the town to remove the bodies of the Iraqis.

Yesterday, Marine Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said charges will be issued against troops if the evidence merits it. For now, however, "it would be premature for me to judge" the outcome of the two U.S. military investigations, Pace said on CBS's "The Early Show." "We'll get to the bottom of the investigation and take the appropriate action."

[Peach]

Thanks for the ping; I meant to leave my comment with you.

Don't Marines typically carry bodies out on stretchers or in body bags? This Marine says he carried bodies out in his arms which doesn't ring true, imo.

[Captain Rhino]

We need to be extremely careful here.

As General Pace says, these are extremely serious allegations and they need to be thoroughly investigated and conclusions drawn based on real evidence.

It is true that Rep. Murtha and the MSM are working overtime to try and convict the accused Marines (along with the Marine Corps in general, the Armed Forces, and ultimately their real objective, the Bush administration) before there is even a trial. That's because they are all about headlines and working their particular political message. If the full truth is known, that's just an inconvenient byproduct of this process.

However, I am amazed by the tone of some of the comments here. They seem to suggest that, when badly provoked, it is somehow an acceptable act to shoot unarmed and unresisting civilians (especially women and children).

Stripped of all the defensive posturing, that's what has been alleged here: the deliberate shooting of unarmed and unresisting civilians. A number of the victims were children, one was only 4 years old. Murder was committed that day in Haditha and whether or not the Marines shoot them, the dead are still victims because SOMEONE shoot them to death that day. Whoever that someone was, it is going to take a heck of a lot of special circumstances to escape being charged with murder for these deaths.

It is true that civilians sometimes get caught in the middle of firefights between rival armed groups. It is true that sometimes civilians sympathize with and actively assist insurgents. It is true that insurgents often hide among the civilian population.

Stating all that only demonstrates how difficult and different fighting an insurgency is from fighting a conventional war. It also underscores the tremendous danger and strain such fighting places on the men and women who are in Iraq and Afghanistan confronting the enemy on our behalf. But we also insist that they be trained in how to lawfully conduct this difficult form of warfare and insist that they show good order and discipline in carrying out their combat tasks. And when discipline fails, as has been alleged here, we can't just shrug our shoulders and say "oh, well." The consequences of indiscipline on the battlefield, both immediate and long term, are just too great to be ignored.

As a retired Marine, I hope the evidence to lead to a dismissal of all charges. However, I also want justice to be done, even if it means owning up to some pretty unpleasant facts about unlawful acts committed by service members.

The reputation of the United States, its armed forces, the Marine Corps, and the profession of arms in general, requires that there be a thorough investigation of the allegations - no matter where that investigation may lead and no matter how ugly the details become. This is exactly what the armed forces is currently doing and should be doing. It is already an embarrassment that it took a TIME magazine report in February 2006 to prompt a DoD level examination of an incident in November 2005. There are allegations of a cover-up - in addition to the deaths - that must the addressed as well.

If there is evidence that real crimes were committed, the offenders must be charged, tried by a courts martial, and if evidence presented at the trial leads to a justly rendered guilty verdict for some (or all) of these Marines, then they must be punished.

We owe nothing less to the millions of Americans who, through their past and present honorable service in the armed forces, have created its reputation for honor, valor, and sacrifice.

[robowombat]

Murtha as with many in DC has large corruption skeletons in his closet. Those in the congressional rat leadership are calling in their markers on him and he has been told he is the designated hitter in the 'decorated vet attacks Iraq war' phony media drama. With the Billy Jeff problem Murtha has been told to pull out all the stops and scream 'atrocity, atrocity, atrocity' morning noon and night before MSM cameras. His over the top performance style, which actually detracts from the credibility of delivery, is enhanced by Murtha being a drunk who is now under a lot of pressure.

[VeritatisSplendor]

Thank you, Captain Rhino.

I'm glad a Marine said this.

Mrs VS

[F.J. Mitchell]

The Sacrifice part for American soldiers could be lowered considerably, if we could just accept the fact that there is no honor or valor among the thugs we are sending our troops to war against these days.

It's a dirty damn shame that we insist on handicapping our own with rules of conduct, that our enemies never have and never will respect or be bound by.

[Just mythoughts]

Given who is on the Senate Armed Forces Committee, I expect the pictures to show up in the French media.

[joesbucks]

I am amazed by the tone of some of the comments here. They seem to suggest that, when badly provoked, it is somehow an acceptable act to shoot unarmed and unresisting civilians (especially women and children).

I hope the evidence to lead to a dismissal of all charges. However, I also want justice to be done, even if it means owning up to some pretty unpleasant facts about unlawful acts committed by service members.

First, thank you for your previous service. You honor our country.

Secondly, thank you for your words of wisdom. There's too much of the "well they do this, so we sould be able to respond in kind", not only here but throughout our country. And, while there are surely some that hope this is a ding on the Marines and the war effort, the bottom line is we should all be looking for the truth and justice prevailing based on that truth.

There has been far too little of that among those who proclaim themselves as patriots.

[Dilbert56]

My fondest hope is exoneration of the Marines leading to forced retirement of Murtha.

[SuziQ]

As for Murtha, I can't see one single reason for him to come forward like he did and crucify the Marines unless he's starting to suffer from the onset of dementia, and I'm serious.

Either that, or someone told him that he would advance in stature in the House if only he would join the anti-Iraq side.

[Suzy Quzy]

Less than 36 HOURS after his return from Iraq, Briones got into serious trouble in his hometown.....Briones was charged with stealing a pickup, crashing it into a house, leaving the scene, driving under the influence and resisting arrest. He has a court date in June.

His family is trying to blame Iraq for his mess, I think he's using this story, possibly not true, as a way of defense for his crimes.....with idiot Murtha;s help. Ryan Briones mother, Susie 40, a Hanford community-college teacher......hmmmmmmm wonder if she's anti-war.

[skimask]

"Two word: My Lai."

That was an army incident, not Marines. There is a difference.

[skimask]

Very well said.

Semper Fi

[sinkspur]

However, I am amazed by the tone of some of the comments here. They seem to suggest that, when badly provoked, it is somehow an acceptable act to shoot unarmed and unresisting civilians (especially women and children).

Bump.

[Donald Rumsfeld Fan]

For example, he said, contrary to Murtha's account, it will show that the Marines came under small-arms fire after the roadside explosion.

This I didn't know. It puts a whole new dimension to Murtha's "in cold blood" assertion.

Who/when/where/why/how? Maybe the marines were ambushed and were engaged in a fire fight when the civilians were killed. Hardly the ingredients of a "cold blooded" massacre.

One or two Marines can go beserk. But an entire unit? I seriously doubt it.

[roses of sharon]

Contrary evidence matters not for those who agitate against our efforts in Iraq, on FR and the DNC/MSM.

[lugsoul]

Just so I'm clear, tell me what I'm missing:

As I understand your closing statement, you believe that when these Marines are exonerated (I guess you know as much about the evidence as those who are rushing to a judgment of guilty, since you make no allowance for 'if'), a US Congressman who spoke out about the allegations against the Marines should be sent to do time in an offshore prison whose primary function is to keep its guests off of of US soil so that no rights afforded to an accused under the Constitution will attach.

Since when does open disdain for the Constitution make one a "Patriot?"

[lugsoul]

Acceptable? Hell, a lot of folks think it is laudable.

[lugsoul]

And, if they came under fire and returned fire, resulting in these deaths, then I presume that the reporting of no bullet holes on the OUTSIDE of the structures where the deaths occurred will be proven incorrect, no?

Hypothetical question: What is the position of the 'our Marines wouldn't do that' brigade going to be if the USMC's own investigation finds that these were point-blank shootings of unarmed civilians, including children?

[MHGinTN]

If Murtha is guilty of sedition and treason (and he is), then the media whores at CNN, MSNBC, etc. are at least guilty of treason with their gleeful slander in continuing to characterize this incident in the worst possible light completely without proof of the charges! CNN radio just spittled out the same characterization as if the guilt is a foregone conclusion ... and to those sleazy anti-military bastards it porbably is, but they're not a court or even credible witnesses.

[Peach]

Actually, you will see perhaps from earlier posts I made last night and today that after two days of watching old war movies with my husband while he's been sick, I said those movies showed that this type of thing has happened in every war ever fought.

It's just happened fewer times in this war than in any other war on the planet.