Posted on 06/07/2006 3:16:52 AM PDT by IrishMike
The unfolding investigation of last November's events in Haditha reveals much more about the Bush administration's critics than it does about the U.S. armed forces. Although the inquiry is ongoing, it appears that 24 unarmed Iraqi civilians were deliberately murdered, allegedly by American Marines seeking revenge for a fallen comrade. If true, the episode was a war crime, something that must be--and no doubt will be--severely punished. However, the administration's critics are already cynically leveraging the Haditha killings as a means of undercutting the president, heedless of the effect this may have on American national interests.
Here is an outline of the emerging anti-Bush thesis: Haditha was the fault not of a handful of Marines, but of an administration that has refused to honor international law. As support, critics point to the administration's refusal to grant Geneva Convention rights to al Qaeda or the Taliban, to the use of aggressive interrogation techniques to obtain intelligence from terrorist detainees, and to a determination not to treat these individuals as ordinary criminal defendants. All of this is claimed despite the fact that the most fundamental aspects of administration policy--that the U.S. is at war, that individuals captured in this war can be held without trial as "enemy combatants" or tried by a military commission--have been vindicated so far by the courts.
(Excerpt) Read more at opinionjournal.com ...
Throughout history, irregular forces have used the surrounding civilian population in two distinct ways. First, guerrilla fighters do not wear uniforms or carry their arms openly--critical elements of lawful warfare--so as to hide among the civilian population. In effect, they use civilians as shields. Second, like the insurgents in Iraq, they seek to goad opponents into mistakenly, or deliberately, attacking civilians--as a means of mobilizing the population against the regulars. The killings at Haditha show how this strategy can work.
Concludes.............................. At the same time, should the Haditha incident mature into a full-fledged war crimes drama prompting a premature U.S. withdrawal, the damage would not be limited to Iraq. If the U.S. cannot fight and win against a brutal urban insurgency in Iraq today, its ability to defeat any determined foe willing to sacrifice the civilian population in irregular warfare will be in question. This can only benefit the most vicious regimes and movements. The Bush administration's critics should pause a moment, and reflect, on whether this would really be worth it.
It appears that way to whom???? Let's just assume our guys are bad guys and the murdering lowlife terrorists did nothing wrong.
Two things:
1. Despite their support for the administration, this article, too, assumes that a war crime has taken place BEFORE the facts are presented. Is there anyone who doubts for a moment that these Marines also have their side of the story?
2. 9/11....Everyone forgets 9/11. 3000 Americans were murdered that day, and Iraq is a logical extension of that pledge to bring down Al Qaeda and all who aided, abetted, provided comfort in ANY capacity. Iraq was guilty of that....not to mention their refusal to abide by previous treaties. Afghanistan was also a logical extension.
allegedly by American Marines ..............
per the version of three Iraqi youths who changed / modified their recollection of events many times, while the MSM failed to report portions that didn't suit their agenda.
And it's going to get worse, much worse since yesterday !!!
The Rats couldn't capatilize in California , failed to win Cunninghams seat. Their theory of Republican 'culture of corruption' did not work...... they lost.
So it's back to basics and Iraq. The Rats and the MSM will throw caution to the wind and every anti Bush or anti Military or anti war on terror issue will be headline / prime time "news".
Not redundant what so ever, very valid and worth frequent repeating.
These lawfare tactics have several other important consequences. If the Pentagon's investigation of Haditha was delayed, it was most likely because similar massacre allegations are made virtually every time American forces take to the field. The fact that, in Iraq, IED explosions are so often followed by insurgent attacks launched from civilian structures also clearly gave credence to the initial--and evidently incorrect--reports from Haditha. When civilian buildings are used in insurgent operations, civilians often are killed in the crossfire, and so the report that a number of civilians had been killed by small arms in Haditha would not have appeared exceptional to the U.S. commanders.
What's your point? Did the 20 villagers who were allegedly slaughtered - women, children, and one old man - have anything whatsoever to do with 9/11? Atrocities committed against us do not justify atrocities against other civilians.
When civilian buildings are used in insurgent operations, civilians often are killed in the crossfire, and so the report that a number of civilians had been killed by small arms in Haditha would not have appeared exceptional to the U.S. commanders.
AND that is a daily occurance......
The President could have help put all this backbiting and military slamming into prespective by issuing the following statement (File under, "Things I wish the President would have said):
For 231 years, the United States Marine Corps has earned our trust, admiration and respect both on the field of battle and here at home. Now there is speculation in the media and among reckless members of Congress that a few may have been involved in an incident in Iraq.
I will not condemn or villify a Corps which has gained the respect of friends and foe alike. These young men will receive a full, fair and impartial investigation like any American. Then and only then will futher comments be made by me or this administration."
This story is welcome news, but the MSM have a lot of tricks up their sleeves.
The MSM can't see that they're being played!?
However, the advent of modern media coverage...has provided a new tactical innovation, increasingly known as "lawfare."
So much for intelligent news purveyors.
My Hat Tip... Pookie's Toon thread..I am so glad to see it reposted..Hope more see it and repost it! So accurate.
The President's statement on this issue was measured and reasonable. Yet you continue to slam him incessantly and quite unfairly.
Yesterday Imus called it 'the Marine massacre' while talking to McCain. McCain did nothing to correct him and responded as if that characterization were already a proven.
IMHO, the United States has a formidable adversary supported by the enemy within composed of left wing socialist revolutionaries (Time, Newsweek magazines and other elements of the MSM such as the alphabet channels), Clintonista operatives, a misguided military that treats is own worse than how it treats enemy combatants), and Congress members who do not have American interests at heart like Murtha, Boxer, Kennedy, et al. Combine that with the absence of true Statesmen with its attendant leadership, and the USA is again on a path to failure. History is showing that militarily we were winning the war in Vietnam, but lost owing to the enemy within. The MSM has yet to admit its culpability to the killing fields that they made possible (Pol Pot's regime killed 4-5 million people between 1975-1979).
We demonstrated that we have the greatest military in the world with a brilliant campaign in Afghanistan and Iraq, only to bog down in Iraq because we seem to fall back onto police action instead of military action. In WWII terms we would have left Berlin alone untouched, and then wondered where the insurgents were coming from? We bombed Berlin and then went from building to building the get rid of the remaining enemy. Today, instead we are again playing into the hands of the enemy by not touching the Sunni Triangle; that is a moot point because it is two years too late for that. On top of that we are punishing our children and heroes who volunteered for the military for doing their job in Iraq (Pantano, Haditha, we put in shackles a 20-year old corpsman with no charges filed)! What happened to presumed innocence until proven guilty? Where are the strong statements by our countries leaders supporting our military (our children)? Does Murtha know this?
Ignoring the local Iraqis and the MSM, it's clear that the military thinks they have some very serious evidence on their hands. If that's the case, then we need to police our own, and that's not shocking. Servicepeople are just as human as anyone else, and sometimes they don't do the right thing.
It's war. Bad things happen. We need to deal with it on it's own terms, not pretend that our troops are angels that can do no wrong. The honor of the 99.9% rests on punishing the .1% that slip the leash.
Whoever publicly leaked this information before an investigation could be completed should also go to prison.
You're mighty quick to execute volunteer soldiers, and toss people in prison...maria.
As a volunteer, I'd opine that volunteers should be held to a higher standard.
Military discipline can be harsh, but it's the only thing that keeps such a small military going. The ROE is absurdly tight, and the enemy cheats, our allies sabotage us, half of America wants to see us fail, and a million other problems conspire against us. Discipline keeps us together. Nothing else.
Nobody is saying a word about 'justifying.' However, to deny mitigation is every bit as intellectually dishonest as claiming justification.
Under what principle, bearing in mind the alternative is compulsory service.
Discipline keeps us together. Nothing else.
I appreciate the sentiment SW, but pain is NOT weakness leaving the body, if you know what I mean.
There is no such thing as competent professionalism that will perpetually tolerate incompetent leadership.
WELL SAID.... I WISH IT HAD BEEN SAID !!!!
Ping !
Borrowed from post #11
.....The President could have help put all this backbiting and military slamming into prespective by issuing the following statement (File under, "Things I wish the President would have said):
For 231 years, the United States Marine Corps has earned our trust, admiration and respect both on the field of battle and here at home. Now there is speculation in the media and among reckless members of Congress that a few may have been involved in an incident in Iraq.
I will not condemn or villify a Corps which has gained the respect of friends and foe alike. These young men will receive a full, fair and impartial investigation like any American. Then and only then will futher comments be made by me or this administration."..................
Amen, brother.
Under what principle, bearing in mind the alternative is compulsory service.
I'm not saying there is an alternative. I think the conscription is immoral.
On that note, it's considerably less moral to punish a man for messing up a task you forced him to do, then to punish a volunteer who knew the risks.
I agree with you, and thank you for your service.
That's the point we must all remember, especially in November!
Can it be truly said that ANY civilian volunteer "knows," let alone "comprehends or understands" the risks?
Thank you!!!!!!!1
We lost in Vietnam for two reasons: our military was restrained in their response to the Communist enemies and the alliance between the enemy forces and the liberals subverted domestic support for the war. Future historians may compare Bush and Rumsfeld to Johnson and McNamara. Either we fight the terrorists to win, or we back out. There is no substitute for victory.
And the media wants to help.
We're on heightened security levels in Baghdad now. Because of Murtha. And the media.
Yep, I'm holding them completely accountable for this latest spike in the violence.
It had been so calm throughout most of May.
The media didn't like that. So they ramped it up with this unfounded Haditha cr@p.
Grow up, maria. It is not the job of FReepers to "check you out."
It is your job, AS a FReeper, to communicate competently, rather than emote all over us and expect us to divine what you meant from what you wrote.
Like it or not what happened on 911 put those Marines there on that day.
And I will say that 911 caused whatever happened there, I'll also say that those we have been fighting since 911 are the one truly at fault for any deaths (civilian or Marine) that took place that day, before and since because that is their goal, and that makes these Marines victims as well of our willingness to condemn them based upon the schemes of our enemies to use our own laws against us.
911 was the start of a battle that was meant to destroy us by our own laws, our own morality, and our own freedoms, but mostly it was an attack to seperate the brave from the cowards so that our enemies could cause the cowards to over rule the brave, and this nation would fall from within.
"The Bush administration's critics should pause a moment, and reflect, on whether this would really be worth it."
I think the writer is being a little naive here. Many of the critics want America to be defeated and its power clipped. They hate America's power, view capitalism as evil, and are willing to side with anyone (including dictatorial and brutal regimes) who oppose America. Others are quite willing to see America defeated as long as they are not running things.
Is must be that President Bush has "below average" advisors, or liberal operatives as advisors. I just do not understand why the President or Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld did not issue a stronger statement to support our troops. Their weak response, in my opinion, pre-judges the actions of our youngsters in the military. They seem to be supporting the questionable testimony of the enemy and leftist revolutionary socialist MSM, over our volunteers.
Do these people know that they appear to be support the testimony of the enemy over someone like the 20 year-old Hospital Corpsman Third Class, now held in shackles? This corpsman began his combat deployment to Iraq in July 2004. During this deployment, 19 Marines from his Battalion gave their lives as the ultimate sacrifice for our country. Nine Marines from his Company were killed, five of them in one firefight. Two Marines died in his arms. This corpsman was awarded the Purple Heart during his first deployment. In January 2006, after spending a very short time at home, he left again for his second combat tour in Iraq. Today he is being treated worse than terrorists are treated at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. He has yet to be charged.
See: http://www.patriotdefensefund.com/
Now all you have to do is get the idiot horses to "drink."
The hunger for the old days, the quest for return of power lost, has made the Liberal DRats oblivious to the dangers into which they have put the Nation.
Good point, and for a response I'll borrow from posting #11
.......The President could have help put all this backbiting and military slamming into prespective by issuing the following statement (File under, "Things I wish the President would have said):
For 231 years, the United States Marine Corps has earned our trust, admiration and respect both on the field of battle and here at home. Now there is speculation in the media and among reckless members of Congress that a few may have been involved in an incident in Iraq.
I will not condemn or villify a Corps which has gained the respect of friends and foe alike. These young men will receive a full, fair and impartial investigation like any American. Then and only then will futher comments be made by me or this administration."
If this was murder, the guilty must be punished, even to death.
I agree.
It looks perfectly clear to me...
The dems don't care if it harms America - they only want their power back - and they believe they can only accomplish that by humiliating Bush - because he humiliated them in 2000 by winning the election (when it was rightfully theirs).
You can't get much more petty, childish, immature, or just plain stupid than that.
But .. is there a more sinister goal .. planned mayhem in the streets of America so the dems can declare martial law - AND REMAIN IN POWER FOREVER ..??
Sounds crazy .. right ..??
Not too crazy at all !
Thank you!
McCain is toast anyway over immigration. He has not a chance in hell of being President now and would NEVER get my vote, even if I had to skip that spot on my ballot.
The older I get, the more convinced I become women should not only be allowed to serve in combat units, but be required to do so.
Perhaps then people like you would not be so cavalier about spending the lives of those who preserve your ability to act like Scarlet O'Hara.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1644753/posts
Media dance macabre
Washington Times ^ | 6/7/06 | Tony Blankley
Posted on 06/06/2006 10:40:58 PM PDT by duckln
The Marine incident, and its aftermath, at Haditha tells us much more about the media than it does about the Marines. And what it tells us ought to outrage us to the core.
On every radio and television show I appeared on last week (and all I observed) in which this topic came up, without exception at least one of the media people immediately attempted to implicate not just the still-presumed-innocent Marines, but the American military's leadership and methods in general.
The "Drive By Media" (Rush Limbaugh's scientifically accurate description) has already started to report this story in a manner that is likely do vast damage that may last for several years to the morale (and possibly recruitment) of our military. It will create a propaganda catastrophe of strategic proportions in our mortal struggle with radical Islam and their terrorist spear point.
And all this is being done by journalists who are seemingly oblivious to the consequences of their acts.
snip ...
But in the lunatic asylum which is today's America-at-war journalism, one possibly unfortunate event opens a flood gate of over-reporting, mis-reporting and just plain lying. Nothing is too harsh or too untrue to say about our military by these [fill in the blank].
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...
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