Is Modern Civilization Fragile?

Reason ^ | June 9, 2006 | Ronald Bailey

[blam]

LOL. I'm presently watching The Little Ice Age on The History Channel and Brian Fagan is one of the people featured on the program.

[blam]

"We can return to be hunter/gatherers if we will accept high infant mortality, short life spans, and the loss of ten thousand years of accumulated knowledge."

Only if the population is reduced by about 95%.

[blam]

"New Orleans is still there! "

With less than half of the original population and many of them are 'living' very close to the edge, even now.

[antivenom]

Yea we have great immunity against: AIDS, Hanta Viruii, TB, Small Pox...glad you brought it up...besides them we now have new things popping up...morphing viruses like the avian flu...which leads one to ask...which came first the disease or the immunity to it?

Actually the first worlders OVER USE of antibiotics, (for example in laundry, dish and body soaps)it is actually weakening our immune systems while disease continues to morph and spread among third worlders to only become a strain that the first worlders have to re-address...

[blam]

"Just finished reading "Collapse" by Jared Diamond...I find this type of history fascinating...thanks for the post."

Jared has some interesting ideas in 'Collapse', however, he's a bit to PC for me.

[trickyricky]

Take away the food in a city like LA for a week
and it becomes a Snake Pliskin movie in a hurry.

LOL! I hope I live long enough to see the Great Wall of New York constructed.

[300winmag]

I think urban civilization is very fragile. Take away the food in a city like LA for a week and it becomes a Snake Pliskin movie in a hurry.

Government, at any level, is incapable of handling any disaster involving more than a few thousand people. Or at least, not handling it before much harm is done.

Katrina convinced me. I used to have this simple bailout bag:

Now I've included this backpack with some additional tools (made possible by changing from a hunter/gatherer society to a farmer/factory worker society):

The main addition to my survival kit should let me reach out 250 yards further than your average gangbanger with his average AK47.

[Nowhere Man]

Actually the first worlders OVER USE of antibiotics, (for example in laundry, dish and body soaps)it is actually weakening our immune systems while disease continues to morph and spread among third worlders to only become a strain that the first worlders have to re-address...

rememberh earing back in the 1970's when I was a kid to where one day, we will run into a roadbock in fighting anti-biotic resistant bacteria because of our overuse of anti-biotics, even at that time. I know myself, I ended up hospitalized three years ago because I got my left hand cut open on the pinky side only to get it infected with strep. I was in hospital for five days including surgery to clean out my hand before the infection got to the bone. Had it gotten to the bone, I might have lost part or all my hand. Luckily it was successful although I have a huge scar left over, nerve damage to where it is numb on the pinky side (feels awkward but everything works OK) and when rain/snow comes, my hand starts to stiffen up and/or ache. My aunt had a similar case with her foot as a result of a cortisone shot where she had a staph infection, she almost lost her foot. I remember in my case, they had to use a special anti-biotic on IV, I was hooked on it for 24/7, it was a pain in the butt getting around lugging an IV tree with me when I was in hospital to therapy and such. After I got out, I had to take anti-biotic pills for month or so.

Dunno what we would do if we start losing the anti-biotic war, maybe go back to sulfa drugs maybe, which were used for infection prior to anti-biotics.

[JimSEA]

I think I will keep my water buffalo, plow, seeds and books (along with 95% of my neighbors - as irritating as they frequently are). The author of this piece can take Noam Chomsky and gather nuts to their hearts content.

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks BenLurkin!

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[annie laurie]

Actually the first worlders OVER USE of antibiotics, (for example in laundry, dish and body soaps) it is actually weakening our immune systems ...

You are 100% correct.

[SunkenCiv]

[ClaireSolt]

As we are now in hurrican season again, it is interesting to try to imagine what it must have been like to be set upon by a hurricane unannounced.

[blam]

"I think I will keep my water buffalo, plow, seeds and books (along with 95% of my neighbors - as irritating as they frequently are). The author of this piece can take Noam Chomsky and gather nuts to their hearts content."

Yup. Me too.

[Mr. Silverback]

Wintertime, you're dead on. And here's a big factor:

5 A morally sound populace with the goodwill to cooperate with each other and a commitment to make it work.

Cripplecreek is right, if you cut off the food from L.A. it would look like a Snake Pliskin movie in a week...but consider that the people who make the food would never want to starve a city. That's why famine is a way of life in Africa and pretty much unknown in the West.

[Daralundy]

Yes I think the population of the world was only about 10 million before agriculture.

[Mr. Silverback]

We can return to be hunter/gatherers if we will accept high infant mortality, short life spans, and the loss of ten thousand years of accumulated knowledge.

Bingo.

[Balding_Eagle]

Our ancestors made themselves and us more vulnerable to the vagaries of nature and the weather once they switched from hunting and gathering to farming.

THIS is news?

Anyone with two brain cells knew that. Seesh, with experts like this we're doomed.

[cripplecreek]

The cities would fast become a source of labor for growing crops. It's not a big deal for us to grow food for ourselves but if the cities need food they would have to supply huge ammounts of labor.

[Mr. Silverback]

Keep in mind when reading Diamond that he's one of these folks who doesn't believe Western civilization is special in any way. He really believes we got lucky and hit the right resources, and that our values had nothing to do with our rise. A silly premise.