Is Modern Civilization Fragile?

Reason ^ | June 9, 2006 | Ronald Bailey

[Leto]

Correct in IT tech that is refered to as 'Intellutical Capital". Without it we'd be in trouble. Which is one reason why declining birthrates in developed countries presents a big problem. Another bad effect of Abortion.

[timm22]

From an athropolological perspective....the only survivors in a hunter-gatherer culture were successful conservatives....(Ann Coulter,Ted Nugent types), then the farming culture produced a need for sharing, spawning the fragile communist mindset of the leftist liberals....(Cindy Sheehan/Al Gore types)

I think it may have been the other way around. In hunter-gatherer cultures, groups tend to be smaller and power less rigidly divided (or at least, not as securely held by the leader). This makes an emphasis on sharing and consensus more important. If you are related to a good chunk of the people in your tribe, don't want to constantly quarrel with them, and need cooperation to hunt big game or find the good berry patch, it makes sense to share to a large degree.

With agriculture, things are different. The surplus population created by agriculture means armies and priests can be used to enforce unequal portions of wealth and political power. It also means more anonymity in those societies thus decreasing the moral obligation to give to your fellow man but increasing the legal obligation to give to your leader. Because food is grown in fields rather than collected from wandering in nature, now lords, administrators, or perhaps the occasional lucky peasant has his OWN peice of land that he is responsible for, which formed the seeds for the idea of property rights.

[timm22]

As a percentage, how many of the people who had been living in the area affected by Katrina are still alive today?

As a percentage, how many of the people living in that same area would have survived had they lived in a hunter-gather society without help from any modern outsiders?

[the invisib1e hand]

complexity tends toward instability. am I right?

[the invisib1e hand]

the fact that civilization, as fragile as it is, goes on, is a testimony to God's grace. --- theinvisib1ehand.

[the invisib1e hand]

OK one more thought -- fragile and surprisingly robust.

[timm22]

Keep in mind when reading Diamond that he's one of these folks who doesn't believe Western civilization is special in any way. He really believes we got lucky and hit the right resources, and that our values had nothing to do with our rise. A silly premise.

I don't believe that is his premise, at least from Guns, Germs, and Steel. Diamond acknowleges the affect of culture and values, but his main point is to explain how and why we developed those values and culture in the first place.

[sauropod]

Answer: yes.

[ASA Vet]

I didn't see many water buffalo in April.
But I did see full size western style tractors for the first time over there.

[Valin]

Bump

[ASA Vet]

societies who had no access to electricity.

[JimSEA]

Water buffalo are getting harder to find, except perhaps in Issan. However, I an fairly sure I encountered one listed under beefsteak on a menu in Phrae this Spring.

[ASA Vet]

Isan is where I was. I saw few buff's.

[JimSEA]

I'll be. It has been a couple of years since we took a slow drive through Isan and we were struck by how much slower the pace of modernization was. In the North where we live, Nan is the only province where you can see many buffalo and old two wheel carts (Oxen also). That is rapidly changing and most villages have one person who has a "tractor business" in addition to the ever present "itan".

[strategofr]

"Civilization gives the means for the physically weaker and more intelligent man to kill the physically stronger and less intelligent...

“It is our wits that makes us men.”"

A striking and true statement. However, I feel it's a bit misleading. It implies that is the reason civilization was set up, which I doubt.

[strategofr]

"I think I will keep my water buffalo, plow, seeds and books..."

Leading the simple life are we?

[blam]

"As a percentage, how many of the people living in that same area would have survived had they lived in a hunter-gather society without help from any modern outsiders?"

Percentages? Probably about the same.

[after dark]

Our civilization is vulnerable to destruction because people are to segmented and specialized.We are dependent on engineering and technology but few people are well educated in those areas. If the few people who are educated in engineering died , our civilization would go down the toilet.People are not taught survival skills such as agriculture and how to gather wild edible herbs and plants.We just assume the grocery stores will always be well stocked. Most of us could not survive if we ever returned to stone age existence. If civilization fell apart because of a cataclysm the San bushmen would have the best odds of surviving.

[TYVets]

What powers the servers, routers and everything in between?

Lots of string and coffee cans.

[oldenuff2no]

The cities will survive without electricity? No way will that happen. All of the food and water they need has to be delivered to them and kept fresh or purified. That would all stop.
As the hordes of city people flee the cities they will still have to eat and need water. Food and water will be more valuable than diamonds and will not just be given by those who need these things for the survival of their own families. People who are thirsty and starving will try to take food and water by force only to find the country folk completely prepared to defend their resources with deadly force..
For those who chose to live in the cities you are betting your life that the government will always be able to provide for you. You are wrong.
Look what happened in New Orleans and think about what your life would be like if your home state and all the surrounding states suffered in the same way, at the same time.
Overall the citizens of N O made a very poor showing at self sufficiency. To put it bluntly they didn't even know enough not to crap in their own beds. Those of us who live in the country took a good look and we know what to expect out of city refugees.