Posted on 06/13/2006 4:51:14 AM PDT by Buffettfan
LOL
If only.
With an American president celebrating Islamic holidays in the White House...
How widely is freedom of religion accepted in the Muslim world?
You could always volunteer to be his first. Just so you could test whether he's the coward you called him.
Too bad I'm not a Muslim.
Just so you could test whether he's the coward you called him.
If he's saying that we're supposed to kill all the Muslims, and he's not doing so, then he's a coward, shirking his self-proclaimed moral duty.
This concerns me. It's like the blacks in prisons who are converting to Islam, almost like a cult thing and being brainwashed!
You could start by tossing wimpy Islaminazi apologists who falsely think they are enlightened intellectuals into jail. Hmmm... Can we think of anybody that fits this description on this thread?
It is now 0909 Thursday, June 15, over there.
Hitler was a Nazi Extremist
Sit safely behind a computer and tell somebody else to do it...is probably the answer.
Isn't that what is going on in Iraq now?
Nail on the head hit, you did </Master Yoda mode>
I can't understand why Fruitbat was banned given the vitriol directed his/her way by CWOJackson. Was it something on another thread? In review I find CWOwhatever's posts very offensive and on a much lower plain of logic than Fruitbat's. Was this a PC bust by the Mods or just what? Is FR becoming only a bed for the comfortable?...Inquiring conservative wants to know.
I have read your posts with increasing disgust until I finally had to comment. As a vet, I can say definitively that you don't know the troops you supposedly advocate. You use them as a debate tool just as liberals use their victims... to insulate you from retort.
Ding ding ding we have a winner...
This discussion has strayed from the real surface main issue and totally skipped to the deeper one (at least from Fruitbat's and CWO's perspective), the outermost issue is our government providing $$ for the building of religious buildings (temples etc..)... Should they build one for the Jewish, the Southern Baptist, the satanist, the tree huggers, the Mormons ??? The issue is NOT about allowing one faith to have services (which it does), it is about having to accommodate to every little whim with an building.
Now if I was to jump onto the deeper meaning, I would have to completely agree that supporting those that hate us is counterproductive, but I would have to also admit that Christianity is all about you accepting Jesus with your own free will. Jesus never pushed, just opened the door for all to come in (He is the door, he blood pushed it open). If you don't want Jesus, fine, He will have no trouble dusting your dirt from his feet and moving you to a warmer climate with worms that don't burn up.
So the deeper meaning is void for me, but the main issue is whether our government should have to build places (who decides if they spent enough, (yes can see it now , bicker bicker, they got a bigger nicer place than we did) for every different person out there to pray. The answer in my book is NO, they have no business doing so. Not building Islamic temples is NOT denying (and causing undue duress) religion freedom.
Actually, if you compare areas like prisons and black recruiting for Islam, then you would have to agree with that point. I don't know of any study done in the military particularly, but it is far from a streach to believe this is a trueism, not a "toilet journalism remark".
I will see if I can dig up the article with the poll numbers later on. Will post if I can find it.
LowOiL
Here is a link detailing what my previous message suggested. It has a multitude of links in it for further reference. Hope it helps sir.
http://www.religionlink.org/tip_031009b.php
I recall reading an article about this by Chuck Colson with regard to his prison ministry. The entire article can be found here:
http://www.leaderu.com/socialsciences/terrorbehindbars.html
Obviously the military is not prison. But with respect to the black muslim question, there may be some of the same remnant hatred of the "white power structure" among some. An excerpt:
"Consider: You’re black, and you believe you’re being oppressed by the white power structure. Along comes a person of color who invites you to join the brotherhood—the most appealing aspect of Islam in prisons—and offers you a means of striking back at your oppressors. If, on top of that, prisoners are taught that the more aggressive they are, the more favor they gain with Allah, you have a dangerous mix."
http://www.niqabiparalegal.com/archives/2003/06/facts_and_figur.php
One tends to think that most Muslims in America are immigrants, from the Middle East, South Asia, and other parts of the Muslim world.
In fact, about 42% of American Muslims are African-Americans (source). This is about 2.5 million people.
We also know that a disproportionate number of African-Americans are in prison. According to Human Rights Watch, 9% of all black adults are in corrections or on parole or probation. For black men between the ages of 20 and 29, the rate jumps to 33%. This translates to blacks comprising 49% of the prison population. Given a total incarcerated population of 2 million, this suggests up to one million African-American prison inmates (source).
It is estimated that as many as 30% of African-American inmates are Muslims and have converted to Islam in prison (source). That makes about 300,000 Muslim inmates. Not only is this a substantial number in and of itself but it comprises about 5% of all Muslims in America and 12% of African-American Muslims.
Ignore African-American Muslims and African-American Muslims in corrections and you are ignoring a major part of the experience of Islam in America.
Island in a Sea of Ignorance provides an excellent overview of the history of Islam in American prisons and the experience of incarcerated Muslims. Behind Bars and Call to Prayer describe the personal experiences of Muslim inmates.
Thanks for the link sir. I think that comment was dangerously close to the mindset. Scarry IMHO..
THIS WAR IS FOR REAL! by GyG (Login Dick Gaines) Forum Owner
MILINET: Muslims, terrorist and the USA--Dr. Vernon Chong, MajGen, USAF (Ret) Inbox
MAJUSMCRET@aol.com to undisclosed-re. 10:44 am (17 minutes ago)
Subject: Muslims, terrorist and the USA. .
This WAR is for REAL! Dr. Vernon Chong, Major General, USAF, Retired
Tuesday, July 12, 2005
To get out of a difficulty, one usually must go through it. Our country is now facing the most serious threat to its existence, as we know it, that we have faced in your lifetime and mine (which includes WWII).
The deadly seriousness is greatly compounded by the fact that there are very few of us who think we can possibly lose this war and even fewer who realize what losing really means.
First, let's examine a few basics. 1. When did the threat to us start? Many will say September 11, 2001. The answer as far as the United State is concerned , is 1979, 22 years prior to September 2001, with the following attacks on us: * Iran Embassy Hostages, 1979; * Beirut, Lebanon Embassy 1983; * Beirut, Lebanon Marine Barracks 1983; * Lockerbie, Scotland Pan-Am flight to New York 1988; * First New York World Trade Center attack 1993; * Dhahran, Saudi Arabia Khobar Towers Military complex 1996; * Nairobi, Kenya US Embassy 1998 ; * Dares Salaam, Tanzania US Embassy 1998; * Aden, Yemen USS Cole 2000; * New York World Trade Center 2001; * Pentagon 2001. (Note that during the period from 1981 to 2001 there were 7,581 terrorist attacks worldwide).
2. Why were we attacked? Envy of our position, our success, and our freedoms. The attacks happened during the administrations of Presidents Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton and Bush 2. We cannot fault either the Republicans or Democrats as there were no provocation's by any of the presidents or their immediate predecessors, Presidents Ford or Carter.
3. Who were the attackers? In each case, the attacks on the US were carried out by Muslims.
4. What is the Muslim population of the World? 25%.
5. Isn't the Muslim Religion peaceful? Hopefully, but that is really not material. There is no doubt that the predominately Christian population of Germany was peaceful, but under the dictatorial leadership of Hitler (who was also Christian), that made no difference. You either went along with the administration or you were eliminated. There were 5 to 6 million Christians killed by the Nazis for political reasons (including 7,000 Polish priests). (see http://www.nazis.testimony.co.uk/7-a.htm )
Thus, almost the same number of Christians were killed by the Nazis, as the six million holocaust Jews who were killed by them, and we seldom heard of anything other than the Jewish atrocities. Although Hitler kept the world focused on the Jews, he had no hesitancy about killing anyone who got in his way of exterminating the Jews or of taking over the world - German, Christian or any others.
Same with the Muslim terrorists. They focus the world on the US, but kill all in the way -- their own people or the Spanish, French or anyone else. The point here is that just like the peaceful Germans were of no protection to anyone from the Nazis, no matter how many peaceful Muslims there may be, they are no protection for us from the terrorist Muslim leaders and what they are fanatically bent on doing -- by their own pronouncements -- killing all of us "infidels." I don't blame the peaceful Muslims. What would you do if the choice was shut up or die?
6. So who are we at war with? There is no way we can honestly respond that it is anyone other than the Muslim terrorists. Trying to be politically correct and avoid verbalizing this conclusion can well be fatal. There is no way to win if you don't clearly recognize and articulate who you are fighting.
So with that background, now to the two major questions: 1. Can we lose this war? 2. What does losing really mean?
If we are to win, we must clearly answer these two pivotal questions.
We can definitely lose this war, and as anomalous as it may sound, the major reason we can lose is that so many of us simply do not fathom the answer to the second question - What does losing mean? It would appear that a great many of us think that losing the war means hanging our heads, bringing the troops home and going on about our business, like post Vietnam. This is as far from the truth as one can get.
What losing really means is : We would no longer be the premier country in the world. The attacks will not subside, but rather will steadily increase. Remember, they w ant us dead, not just quiet. If they had just wanted us quiet, they would not have produced an increasing series of attacks against us, over the past 18 years. The plan was clearly, for terrorist to attack us, until we were neutered and submissive to them.
We would of course have no future support from other nations, for fear of reprisals and for the reason that they would see, we are impotent and cannot help them.
They will pick off the other non-Muslim nations, one at a time. It will be increasingly easier for them. They already hold Spain hostage. It doesn't matter whether it was right or wrong for Spain to withdraw its troops from Iraq. Spain did it because the Muslim terrorists bombed their train and told them to withdraw the troops. Anything else they want Spain to do will be done. Spain is finished.
The next will probably be France. Our one hope on France is that they might see the light and realize that if we don't win, they are finished too, in that they can't resist the Muslim terrorists without us. However, it may already be too late for France. France is already 20% Muslim and fading fast!
If we lose the war, our production, income, exports and way of life will all vanish as we know it. After losing, who would trade or deal with us, if they were threatened by the Muslims. If we can't stop the Muslims, how could anyone else?
The Muslims fully know what is riding on this war, and therefore are completely committed to winning, at any cost. We better know it too and be likewise committed to winning at any cost.
Why do I go on at such lengths about the results of losing? Simple. Until we recognize the costs of losing, we cannot unite and really put 100% of our thoughts and efforts into winning. And it is going to take that 100% effort to win.
So, how can we lose the war? Again, the answer is simple. We can lose the war by "imploding." That is, defeating ourselves by refusing to recognize the enemy and their purpose, and really digging in and lending full support to the war effort If we are united, there is no way that we can lose. If we continue to be divided, there is no way that we can win!
Let me give you a few examples of how we simply don't comprehend the life and death seriousness of this situation.
President Bush selects Norman Mineta as Secretary of Transportation. Although all of the terrorist attacks were committed by Muslim men between 17 and 40 years of age, Secretary Mineta refuses to allow profiling. Does that sound like we are taking this thing seriously? This is war! For the duration, we are going to have to give up some of the civil rights we have become accustomed to. We had better be prepared to lose some of our civil rights temporarily or we will most certainly lose all of them permanently.
And don't worry that it is a slippery slope. We gave up plenty of civil rights during WWII, and immediately restored them after the victory and in fact added many more since then.
Do I blame President Bush or President Clinton before him?
No, I blame us for blithely assuming we can maintain all of our Political Correctness, and all of our civil rights during this conflict and have a clean, lawful, honorable war. None of those words apply to war. Get them out of your head.
Some have gone so far in their criticism of the war and/or the Administration that it almost seems they would literally like to see us lose. I hasten to add that this isn't because they are disloyal. It is because they just don't recognize what losing means. Nevertheless, that conduct gives the impression to the enemy that we are divided and weakening. It concerns our friends, and it does great damage to our cause.
Of more recent vintage, the uproar fueled by the politicians and media regarding the treatment of some prisoners of war, perhaps exemplifies best what I am saying. We have recently had an issue, involving the treatment of a few Muslim prisoners of war, by a small group of our military police. These are the type prisoners who just a few months ago were throwing their own people off buildings, cutting off their hands, cutting out their tongues and otherwise murdering their own people just for disagreeing with Saddam Hussein.
And just a few years ago these same type prisoners chemically killed 400,000 of their own people for the same reason. They are also the same type of enemy fighters, who recently were burning Americans, and dragging their charred corpses through the streets of Iraq.
And still more recently, the same type of enemy that was and is providing videos to all news sources internationally, of the beheading of American prisoners they held.
Compare this with some of our press and politicians, who for several days have thought and talked about nothing else but the "humiliating" of some Muslim prisoners -- not burning them, not dragging their charred corpses through the streets, not beheading them, but "humiliating" them.
Can this be for real?
The politicians and pundits have even talked of impeachment of the Secretary of Defense. If this doesn't show the complete lack of comprehension and understanding of the seriousness of the enemy we are fighting, the life and death struggle we are in and the disastrous results of losing this war, nothing can.
To bring our country to a virtual political standstill over this prisoner issue makes us look like Nero playing his fiddle as Rome burned -- totally oblivious to what is going on in the real world. Neither we, nor any other country, can survive this internal strife. Again I say, this does not mean that some of our politicians or media people are disloyal. It simply means that they are absolutely oblivious to the magnitude, of t he situation we are in and into which the Muslim terrorists have been pushing us, for many years.
Remember, the Muslim terrorists stated goal is to kill all infidels! That translates into ALL non-Muslims -- not just in the United State, but throughout the world.
We are the last bastion of defense.
We have been criticized for many years as being 'arrogant.' That charge is valid in at least one respect. We are arrogant in that we believe that we are so good, powerful and smart, that we can win the hearts and minds of all those who attack us, and that with both hands tied behind our back, we can defeat anything bad in the world!
We can't!
If we don't recognize this, our nation as we know it will not survive, and no other free country in the world will survive if we are defeated.
And finally, name any Muslim countries throughout the world that allow freedom of speech, freedom of thought, freedom of religion, freedom of the press, equal rights for anyone -- let alone everyone, equal status or any status for women, or that have been productive in one single way that contributes to the good of the world.
This has been a long way of saying that we must be united on this war or we will be equated in the history books to the self-inflicted fall of the Roman Empire . If, that is, the Muslim leaders will allow history books to be written or read.
If we don't win this war right now, keep a close eye on how the Muslims take over France in the next 5 years or less. They will continue to increase the Muslim population of France and continue to encroach little by little, on the established French traditions. The French will be fighting among themselves, over what should or should not be done, which will continue to weaken them and keep them from any united resolve. Doesn't that sound eerily familiar?
Democracies don't have their freedoms taken away from them by some external military force. Instead, they give their freedoms away, politically correct piece by politically correct piece.
And they are giving those freedoms away to those who have shown, worldwide that they abhor freedom and will not apply it to you or even to themselves, once they are in power.
They have universally shown that when they have taken over, they then start brutally killing each other over who will be the few who control the masses. Will we ever stop hearing from the politically correct, about the "peaceful Muslims"?
I close on a hopeful note, by repeating what I said above. If we are united, there is no way that we can lose. I hope now after the election, the factions in our country will begin to focus on the critical situation we are in, and will unite to save our country. It is your future we are talking about! Do whatever you can to preserve it.
If you would like to see who this fellow is go to this Air Force web site and look him up. http://www.af.mil/bios/alpha.asp?alpha=C
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