Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops policy paper on its support of illegal immigration
U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops ^ | Walter Ewing

Posted on 06/14/2006 4:52:10 PM PDT by garbageseeker

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-5051-100101-150151-200 ... 251-294 next last
To: catholicfreeper
I don't see how a like minded conservative Catholic could complain if the Church takes an interest in the immigration laws of this country. In fact if a person did so they would not be consistent in their reasoning or politcal activity

Did Jesus not say "Render unto Caesar's the thing which are Caesar's, and unto God's the things that are God's, meaning that the Church to keep politics seperate from ceratin ofther fields, such as religion.
51 posted on 06/14/2006 7:58:31 PM PDT by garbageseeker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: garbageseeker
Did Jesus not say "Render unto Caesar's the thing which are Caesar's, and unto God's the things that are God's, meaning that the Church to keep politics seperate from ceratin ofther fields, such as religion.

The Church sees immigration as a moral issue, not a political one.

Sorry if you don't agree, but the Church has taken an interest in social justice issues for millenia.

52 posted on 06/14/2006 8:00:26 PM PDT by sinkspur (Today, we settled all family business.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: sinkspur
The Catholic Church has supported regularizing the illegals who are in this country for a very long time. It's no surprise to any Catholic.

Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar,and unto God's the things that are God's.
53 posted on 06/14/2006 8:01:14 PM PDT by garbageseeker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 50 | View Replies]

To: garbageseeker
The Church sees immigration as a moral issue, not a political one.

But its a political one being debated by elected politicans in Washington D.C. They will be passing the law not the Church
54 posted on 06/14/2006 8:03:20 PM PDT by garbageseeker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 53 | View Replies]

To: garbageseeker
You take that saying of Jesus out of context. He was talking about paying the tax to Caesar with the coin that was Caesar's, but demanding that the Pharisees recognize that all things came from God.

Immigration is a moral issue. What does your Church say about immigration?

55 posted on 06/14/2006 8:03:26 PM PDT by sinkspur (Today, we settled all family business.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 53 | View Replies]

To: garbageseeker

In this Republic the problem is that we are the ordinary Citizen is pretty much Caesar. THere fore as Catholics and Caesar at the same time we need guidance from the Church because what we Catholics do as "caesar" impact millions


56 posted on 06/14/2006 8:03:27 PM PDT by catholicfreeper (I am Blogging for the GOP and Victory O6 at www.theponderingamerican.blogspot.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: garbageseeker
But its a political one being debated by elected politicans in Washington D.C. They will be passing the law not the Church

The same could be said about abortion. Should the Catholic Church say nothing about abortion?

57 posted on 06/14/2006 8:04:58 PM PDT by sinkspur (Today, we settled all family business.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 54 | View Replies]

To: sinkspur
You missed the meaning all together. The meaning is that keep politics separate from certain other fields such as religion. That Church should not be meddling in the affairs of the state.
58 posted on 06/14/2006 8:05:57 PM PDT by garbageseeker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 55 | View Replies]

To: sinkspur

Yes, that issue that is political.


59 posted on 06/14/2006 8:07:00 PM PDT by garbageseeker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 57 | View Replies]

To: garbageseeker
That Church should not be meddling in the affairs of the state.

Abortion is an affair of the state. Should Churches stay out of any discussion of abortion?

60 posted on 06/14/2006 8:07:27 PM PDT by sinkspur (Today, we settled all family business.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 58 | View Replies]

To: garbageseeker
I am as outraged with these bishops as I am with my president.
61 posted on 06/14/2006 8:08:29 PM PDT by Barnacle (Minutemen. Doing the work American politicians refuse to do.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: garbageseeker

I am a Catholic and I am opposed to illegal immigration.

Here's a thought I had when reading the latest screed from some pro-illegal immigration 'social justice' liberal priest pushing this very bad idea:

My wife is a legal immigrant. It took her many years to become a citizen. My wife also became a Catholic, through the process of RCIA. It was a year-long process, even for people who grew up in other non-Catholic Christian denominations.

At no time did the Catholic church say, "You know what. We have some rules here, but forget about them. You don't need to follow them. In fact, we *encourage* you to violate the rules, because we just want our pews filled."

Would Catholic Priests and bishops agree to give communion to Muslims who just show up one Sunday for Mass?
Would they start abandoning their catholic principles in order to placate non-catholics who show up at a mass and demands changes? We know the answer. Communion is not to be given to non-Catholics.

Yet the Catholic bishops think that American citizenship needs to be given to those here who have broken the law to get here. They think rules are okay for the Catholic church, but not for our borders and our immigration. They want to require amnesty for illegal behavior as a precondition for enforcing the law.

Jesus said "give to Ceaser what is Ceasar's", deflecting the trap laid by Pharisees. By that he meant we are in this world and we are subject to civil authorities, although the highest authority is not on earth, but God. We do no service to God when we unnecessarily advocate the breakdown of the civil order. And that is what advocacy of amnesty does.

Why are Catholic bishops walking away from the wisdom of Jesus and falling into the trap of bad public policy of encouraging illegal behavior? If it is about compassion, it is misplaced, for the negative consequences of illegal immigration is rampant: Legal immigrants are pushed to the back of lines; workers here get impacted by wage compression; and illegal immigration itself encourages illegal gangs of "coyotes", is dangerous (with many border crossers dying in the desert or suffocating in cramped hidden railroad cars and trucks).

If amnesty were indeed a solution, it might be reasonable for the church to consider advocating it, but we know from experience that the main impact of amnesty is to make the problem worse. More illegal immigration, less control of the immigration process, and a system further broken down.

There is a responsible way out: One that combines a secure border, immigration law enforcement, and adequate levels of legal immigration, both termporary and permanent, to make sure economic demands for labor and the desire formany to come to America is met.

America, like the church, is welcoming new members, but we must have some order in how these new members come in, or chaos reigns. We see that chaos today, with 12 million illegal aliens here, a large extent caused by previous amnesties. Let's avoid the trap of the zealots, and


62 posted on 06/14/2006 8:08:52 PM PDT by WOSG (Do your duty, be a patriot, support our Troops - VOTE!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: garbageseeker
Hmmmm...maybe Thomas Nast was onto something.


63 posted on 06/14/2006 8:09:01 PM PDT by Plutarch
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: catholicfreeper

We disagree. That is why there is separation of church and state in this country. The state should do their affairs and the church should do their affairs.


64 posted on 06/14/2006 8:09:29 PM PDT by garbageseeker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 56 | View Replies]

To: Plutarch

Nast was a bigot.


65 posted on 06/14/2006 8:10:15 PM PDT by sinkspur (Today, we settled all family business.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 63 | View Replies]

To: WOSG

BUMP


66 posted on 06/14/2006 8:10:36 PM PDT by garbageseeker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 62 | View Replies]

To: garbageseeker
You agreed that abortion was an affair for the state.

Should Churches say nothing about abortion?

As a Mason, what does your Church say about immigration?

67 posted on 06/14/2006 8:11:50 PM PDT by sinkspur (Today, we settled all family business.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 64 | View Replies]

To: sinkspur
Thomas Nast is probably the greatest political cartoonist/commentator ever. His cartoons have greatly impacted American history.
68 posted on 06/14/2006 8:11:51 PM PDT by garbageseeker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 65 | View Replies]

To: sinkspur
The Freemasons do not have a position on abortions.
69 posted on 06/14/2006 8:12:48 PM PDT by garbageseeker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 67 | View Replies]

To: garbageseeker
What about marriage? Should the Church not weigh in on a marriage amendment?

Just what, in your Masonic world, would the Church be allowed to comment on?

70 posted on 06/14/2006 8:13:43 PM PDT by sinkspur (Today, we settled all family business.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 66 | View Replies]

To: sinkspur
If the Catholic hierarchy is going to get involved, they should at least get on the right side of the issue.

Illegal immigration is illegal for a reason... Make that, "many reasons".
71 posted on 06/14/2006 8:15:01 PM PDT by Barnacle (Minutemen. Doing the work American politicians refuse to do.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 60 | View Replies]

To: angelanddevil2; garbageseeker

"I'm a Catholic legal hispanic woman agains illegal immigration."

I am a Catholic against illegal immigration. Three of us on the same page. Let's get a list here of all the
"Catholics against Illegal Immigration".

We could make a response statement.

btw the 'render unto Ceasar' I take to mean *not* that the church ought not get involved at all in politics, but that there is a wisdom for Christians in obeying lawful civil authority. being a Christian doesnt give you an excuse to be a tax-evader. So it is in this case. Our immigration law is very generous and not unjust; we permit over 1 million legal immigrants a year. There is absolutely no reason for the Catholic church to support defiance and undermining of our immigration law, through their support of amnesty.


72 posted on 06/14/2006 8:15:20 PM PDT by WOSG (Do your duty, be a patriot, support our Troops - VOTE!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: WOSG

The Church is not saying that there should be consequences. Also the Church is not saying this in order to fill the pews up. You speak of RCIA. Well the proposals that people are calling Amnesty amount to whats basically a 12 year RCIA class but one to become an American citizen.

Furthermore, the above is consisent with Teachings of our most conservative and orthodox of Popes and Catholic Teachers. It can not just be dismissed as in the same category as liberation Theology.

The Church here is concerned about primarly the Dignity of the human person and the unity of the family. For it to remain silent aon those issues would be contrary to the call of the Church. One wonders what POland would have looked liked if the Church had not got involved in politics there. THe Church has a duty and obligation too be involved in issues like this.


73 posted on 06/14/2006 8:16:03 PM PDT by catholicfreeper (I am Blogging for the GOP and Victory O6 at www.theponderingamerican.blogspot.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 62 | View Replies]

To: sinkspur
Should Churches say nothing about abortion?

I attend a church to praise God not to hear politics.
74 posted on 06/14/2006 8:16:20 PM PDT by garbageseeker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 67 | View Replies]

To: garbageseeker
Thomas Nast is probably the greatest political cartoonist/commentator ever. His cartoons have greatly impacted American history.

He was a religious bigot, no matter what affect his cartoons had.

The Freemasons do not have a position on abortions.

Do you? Do you have a position on whether or not Churches should say anything about abortion?

I'm getting the impression that you're in over your head here.

If the Churches and synagogues can say nothing about moral issues, what can they speak about in the public arena?

75 posted on 06/14/2006 8:16:55 PM PDT by sinkspur (Today, we settled all family business.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 68 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

"The predominantly Catholic immigrant wave could mean the overturn of Roe v Wade."

Yeah right. the Hispanics in Cali vote overwhelminingly for that pro-abort extremist Barbara Boxer. The illegal immigrant wave is 70%+ Democrat, and more Democrats mean a left-wing judiciary.


76 posted on 06/14/2006 8:17:19 PM PDT by WOSG (Do your duty, be a patriot, support our Troops - VOTE!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: seasoned traditionalist

I think the key word here is immigrant- it seems like they lumped illegal aliens and legal immigrants together to arrive at this number. Many citizens of other countries who are working and living here legally hold high paying jobs. Not sure, but that is the only way I can see that their numbers could possibly be true.


77 posted on 06/14/2006 8:17:25 PM PDT by Tammy8 (Build a Real Border Fence, and secure the border!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Barnacle
If the Catholic hierarchy is going to get involved, they should at least get on the right side of the issue.

They are on the "right side" of the issue. They believe in reinforcement of the borders, but in fair treatment for those who are in this country, and legalization if possible.

You may not agree with it, but it is not wrong because you say so.

78 posted on 06/14/2006 8:19:11 PM PDT by sinkspur (Today, we settled all family business.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 71 | View Replies]

To: sinkspur
Just what, in your Masonic world, would the Church be allowed to comment on?

The first cardinal rule is to never comment on politics or religion in the confines of lodge. I divulge any more things further.If you want to know what we do, join a lodge.
79 posted on 06/14/2006 8:20:31 PM PDT by garbageseeker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 70 | View Replies]

To: sinkspur
Nast was a bigot.

Yeah, that is what we learned in history. We have also learned from the FROBL that anyone who opposes an open border with Mexico is a bigot, and we know that isn't correct.

80 posted on 06/14/2006 8:20:49 PM PDT by Plutarch
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 65 | View Replies]

To: c-b 1

"The immigrants believe anything they tell them because they are Mexican, we can't get the message out to the immigrants, first because of the language barrier, second they wouldn't believe us if they could understand us."

Of course, they get the mexicans to not even listen to us because they tell them that all Republicans are racists and hate mexicans, etc. and they intimidate the heck out of minority Republicans who tell the truth convincingly.
This is why blacks like Clarence Thomas and folks like Migeul Estrada were vilified more than even white-male nominees.

The Dems are helped in this smear campaign by that small fraction of right-wing kooks who actually are xenophobic racists.


81 posted on 06/14/2006 8:21:06 PM PDT by WOSG (Do your duty, be a patriot, support our Troops - VOTE!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: garbageseeker
I attend a church to praise God not to hear politics.

So your Church does not defend human life? What kind of God do you worship, who cares nothing for human life?

And if your God cares for human life, how is that shown? Do His People just hope for the best, or do they work, in the political arena, to defend human life, at every stage?

82 posted on 06/14/2006 8:21:52 PM PDT by sinkspur (Today, we settled all family business.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 74 | View Replies]

To: garbageseeker
I am a Catholic, and I take offense that they are promoting a crime.

Same here. I have cut off all donations to anything Catholic.

83 posted on 06/14/2006 8:22:50 PM PDT by SMM48
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: sinkspur

Thomas Nast was a famous caricaturist and editorial cartoonist in the 19th century and is considered to be the father of American political cartooning.


84 posted on 06/14/2006 8:23:10 PM PDT by garbageseeker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 65 | View Replies]

To: SMM48

I think that if more people aware of what the Church is doing(especially using the offering money for illegal aliens) there would be more and more people not giving offerings at Mass.


85 posted on 06/14/2006 8:24:58 PM PDT by garbageseeker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 83 | View Replies]

To: Plutarch; sinkspur

I have found few people here that support open borders. Open Borders many that anyone can come across at will and it doesnt matter. Most people that are against illegal immigration(in truth we are all) are not racist. However there are some that do have racist motives. Thats just life

I find that those that support the Presidents view are also very concerned about getting control of the sitution at the border. There are very few true LIbertarian open border folks at FR that I have seen


86 posted on 06/14/2006 8:25:24 PM PDT by catholicfreeper (I am Blogging for the GOP and Victory O6 at www.theponderingamerican.blogspot.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 80 | View Replies]

To: garbageseeker
I am a Catholic, and I take offense that they are promoting a crime.

You're a Catholic?

Do you know that belonging to a Masonic lodge is forbidden? If you have not obtained permission from your bishop to belong to the Masons, you are in material sin.

How can you accuse the bishops of doing something wrong when you are wrong in belonging to the Masons?

87 posted on 06/14/2006 8:25:36 PM PDT by sinkspur (Today, we settled all family business.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 84 | View Replies]

To: sinkspur
I think that your beginning to troll now.
88 posted on 06/14/2006 8:26:16 PM PDT by garbageseeker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 82 | View Replies]

To: catholicfreeper

Let us be clear: This is not "Church Teaching",
This is liberal political advocacy that happens to be supported and promulgated by the bishops' political organization in DC.

This position is as wrong-headed and ill-advised as their 1980s foray into opposed Reagan's wise and correct defense policies:


http://www.cmpage.org/betrayal/chapt2.html
"Bishops, obviously not satisfied to merely lead their flocks, have also claimed expertise on American weaponry. Some of the Catholic bishops involved in the 1983 pastoral letter on nuclear arms and defense told a House Foreign Affairs Committee meeting in 1984 that they did not approve of the MX missile or the Strategic Defense Initiative. They maintained that the MX would not provide protection and the Strategic Defense Initiative would not work. Since trained scientists are still debating the merits of the Strategic Defense Initiative, it is strange that the bishops seem to have informed knowledge on this highly technical subject."

" They later wrote a poor imitation of the Catholic bishops' 1983 pastoral letter about defense, titled "The Nuclear Crisis and the Pursuit of Peace." In it the bishops, like the Catholic bishops, opposed not only the use of nuclear weapons, but also said even "nuclear deterrence" could not "receive the churches' blessing." The bishops did not even attempt to justify their positions with thoughtful, in-depth studies of theology, but largely depended on waving the concept of "shalom" - which they misinterpreted as "harmony between humanity and all of God's creatures" on this earth - and using half-pietistic, half-trendy rhetoric. "But we write also in gratitude for the swelling chorus of those who cry No to nuclear weapons, No to poverty, No to racism, No to sexism - and Yes to the things that make for peace," the letter said. The study document also used the concept of "shalom."
Both the letter and the study document which accompanied it assumed a moral equivalency between the United States and the Soviet Union. They suggested that the nuclear arms race is a disease which afflicts both countries. In doing so they totally ignored the differences in American and Soviet political systems, in effect putting totalitarianism and democracy, and American and Soviet foreign policy, on the same moral level."

Phooey to their wrong and liberal policies on relations with USSR, and phoeey to their wrong and liberal policies on immigration.


89 posted on 06/14/2006 8:29:11 PM PDT by WOSG (Do your duty, be a patriot, support our Troops - VOTE!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: sinkspur
Do you know that belonging to a Masonic lodge is forbidden? If you have not obtained permission from your bishop to belong to the Masons, you are in material sin. How can you accuse the bishops of doing something wrong when you are wrong in belonging to the Masons?

Actually, many nuns and priests know that am a Mason. And they do not care. Belong to the Masonic lodge is the greatest honor to bestow on a man. Many great Americans have belonged to the order.
90 posted on 06/14/2006 8:29:16 PM PDT by garbageseeker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 87 | View Replies]

To: flaglady47
wow! you disagree with what you see as the pre-Vatican II stance on salvation, and yet you scoff at the clarified view of the Church which came out of the Council.

There's one thing I know--The Church has never definitively declared anyone to be in Hell, although She has Canonized many souls as for sure being in Heaven.

There's only one Heaven, and even St. Paul said that "eye has not seen and ear has not heard what the Lord has prepared for those who love him". The Church puts NO LIMITS on the Mercy of God. But if man is searching for The Fullness of Truth, he will find it in Christ's Church.

91 posted on 06/14/2006 8:29:51 PM PDT by GOP_Thug_Mom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: garbageseeker; sinkspur

Good grief your a Catholic and a Mason. For all the talk of about upholding laws your in violation of Church law itself. I am serious on this question and not trying to be mean or flaming here. I see your trying to to get Catholic to quit giving to Holy Mother Church. I also see that you don't think the Church should be involved in politics either. My question is did you have this attitude before or after you joined the Lodge.


92 posted on 06/14/2006 8:30:43 PM PDT by catholicfreeper (I am Blogging for the GOP and Victory O6 at www.theponderingamerican.blogspot.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 88 | View Replies]

To: WOSG

MEGA bump


93 posted on 06/14/2006 8:30:51 PM PDT by garbageseeker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 89 | View Replies]

To: garbageseeker
I think that your beginning to troll now.

No. I'm hitting close to home. Shall I post the motu proprio from the Vatican stating that the ban on Catholic participation in Masonic Lodges is still valid?

You are proud of your Masonic membership, since it's on your home page.

No wonder you want the bishops to butt out. You're caught dead to rights violating a prescription of the Church.

94 posted on 06/14/2006 8:30:58 PM PDT by sinkspur (Today, we settled all family business.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 88 | View Replies]

To: garbageseeker
"[...] Such people should be given the opportunity to obtain permanent residence, instead of being forced outside the boundaries of the law." (50)

Someone should inform Brownback that illegals DO have an opportunity. It's called, return to your country of origin, and get in line.

95 posted on 06/14/2006 8:33:05 PM PDT by Proud2BAmerican
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: sinkspur

I know the ban.

I am proud of my Masonic membership

Its not my fault the bishops in the Church have this Marxist tendency.


96 posted on 06/14/2006 8:33:13 PM PDT by garbageseeker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 94 | View Replies]

To: Proud2BAmerican

Bump.


97 posted on 06/14/2006 8:33:45 PM PDT by garbageseeker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 95 | View Replies]

To: garbageseeker
If you know of the ban, then you are acting in direct disobedience to the Church.

No wonder you dislike the stance of the bishops on immigration, and abortion, and everything else.

98 posted on 06/14/2006 8:35:13 PM PDT by sinkspur (Today, we settled all family business.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 96 | View Replies]

To: WOSG

I am afraid your wrong. I am not saying everything the American Bishops say is infalliable but this document s pretty much right on with the teaching of the Church Universal. If you noticed John Paul II is mentioned also. Furthermore this is pretty align with statements from Rome itself on the migration of human beings. Also its pretty much aligned with the Catechism as to the responsibilities Governments, on the family, on the dignity of human person, on borders, and on immigrants

THe Bishops are not saying that there should be open borders or that America should give up its sovernity. It is speaking up for millions of American children though that might be seperated from their parents or thrust into poverty. At least someone is speaking up for those forgotten Americans in this debate


99 posted on 06/14/2006 8:35:37 PM PDT by catholicfreeper (I am Blogging for the GOP and Victory O6 at www.theponderingamerican.blogspot.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 89 | View Replies]

To: garbageseeker
Its not my fault the bishops in the Church have this Marxist tendency.

Things like supporting left wing Communists in Latin America.
100 posted on 06/14/2006 8:36:11 PM PDT by garbageseeker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 96 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-5051-100101-150151-200 ... 251-294 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson