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The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops policy paper on its support of illegal immigration
U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops ^ | Walter Ewing

Posted on 06/14/2006 4:52:10 PM PDT by garbageseeker

click here to read article


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To: AzaleaCity5691
That is idiotic. (And I'm a former Catholic.) There is no true religion. Especially not Catholicism. Paid an indulgence lately? That includes Mass Cards.

Christ never intended the Church to be the way it is today. As a perfect example, show me where in the Bible it says that priests must be celibate. You can't and you know it.

41 posted on 06/14/2006 7:28:54 PM PDT by buccaneer81 (Bob Taft has soiled the family name for the next century.)
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To: AzaleaCity5691

"and it turns out the Catholics are correct over salvation/damnation, then you are less likely to get into heaven then the Baptist, because the Baptist didn't reject the truth of Catholicism because Baptists were never exposed to the truth."

This is what drives me nutz. I'm glad you put in "if Catholics are correct over salvation/damnation". Because the idea that the rest of the Christian world other than Catholics, are probably going to heaven because of their ignorance of the "one true faith", is such a crock. Made up by the Vatican II Council to try to come up with something to modify the Church's true stance which is only Catholics will go to heaven, and no other Christians will, unless they switch to Catholic. So Vatican II comes up with this equivocation so that what was their true religious stance wouldn't be so harshly interpreted by other Christians. Giving the rest of the Christians an out, in the eyes of the Catholic Church. They are just religiously ignorant, so they'll get to heaven because of their religious stupidity. Geez, how totally condescending. I'd rather the Church stick with only Catholics go to heaven. At least you know out front where they really stand.

Which brings me then to heaven. What, is there a Lutheran heaven, a Baptist heaven, a Jewish heaven (for those that believe in the concept of heaven), a Presbyterian heaven? Must be pretty crowded up in the sky, with so many heavens around. A variety of Protestant religions also had an exclusivity clause, you wouldn't get to heaven if you weren't a Lutheran, Calvinist, Baptist, etc. And then there is Islam, where heaven is only for Muslims, no infidels allowed (that's you and I). We won't even talk about the Hindu's, Buddhists, etc. as it would occupy too much space.

What I want to know is do Catholics walk around, befriending, sometimes marrying, working with the variety of people they meet in their lives thinking, I'm your friend, but you are going to hell because you aren't Catholic. Or, you are my boyfriend, but you are doomed to hell, or you're my boss, but do you realize I'm working for someone who is going to hell? Why be friends with a bunch of people in the world that you think are all going to hell? Do you walk around with the concept of I'll meet you, be friends with you, knowing you are going to hell, and when we die, I'll be in heaven, and you'll be down in hell frying and burning. Young teenagers, old seniors, the infirm, the charity workers, the do-gooders, the church workers, all are going to hell and fry because they are not a given religion?

What a way to look at the world and the people in it. I'm your friend, but you are going to hell when you die and I'm not. You are a good person in life, but because you are the wrong religion, you are going to die and suffer forever in the afterlife because you aren't Catholic, etc. How can you look at people in such a light? At leave Vatican II tried to come up with an out on this point, because the other way of looking at religion, is so against the alleged concepts of religiosity. You lead a good life but because you aren't a specific religion you rot in hell anyway when you die. This one concept of religious belief always ends up stopping me short regarding Catholicism, which I otherwise admire on many levels, and half of my family is Catholic. The other half is Missouri Synod Lutheran, which is interesting, as both once claimed exclusivity of heaven, a view of heaven as a special social club, members only allowed. There must be so many heavens. Let' see, do I go to the Lutheran heaven where my mother is, or to the Catholic heaven where my father is. Do I have to make a choice, knowing I will only see one of my parents, only some of my relatives, only some of my friends, in one or the other, or some other religion's heaven? Such a theological dilemna.


42 posted on 06/14/2006 7:32:29 PM PDT by flaglady47
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To: buccaneer81

And the church has never said, ex-cathedra, priests must be celibate. Celibacy of the clergy exists in only 1 of 22 rites, granted, it is the largest rite of the church, but still, not the only incorporation of Catholicism. Not to mention, many exceptions exist in the Roman rite where there are married priests, generally, converts from theologically similar churches such as the Orthodox and Episcopalian/Anglican, and never mind those ordained in Eastern Rite churches who are now in the Roman rite church.


And I personally think, with the lack of clergy, this is one thing the Roman rite will back down on. It's not an issue of truth, it is an issue of a self-imposed discipline within a rite. I do believe Catholicism is the true religion, as we do have apostolic succession from Jesus Christ, God's only son. No Protestant denomination has that, and only the Orthodox have a claim to any descent from apostolic authority.


43 posted on 06/14/2006 7:41:08 PM PDT by AzaleaCity5691 (6-6-06 A victory for reason)
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To: garbageseeker

Interesting article. I have just skimmed it my self. I think its pretty consistent with Church Teaching on this issue. I know there is a tendency to try to put the Church's teaching into political classifications of what Liberal catholics think versus Conservative Catholics. THe real issue is what is the Orthodox Catholic response. Orthodox being that one submits himself to Christ and Christ Teaching and to his Church that expounds them.

Of course, a Catholic can a wide array of views as to specific legislation.

The most powerful argument that comes out this document is in regards to "mixed" families. Those families that might might be split apart. This flys in the face of Catholic Teaching. Especially for it to be done on such a mass level.

Finally, the Church is not promoting illegal activity. I can find nothing in this document that says they wish for illegal immigration to continue. I know there are some people who feel that if the Bishops recommendations were followed that illegal immigration would increase.. However many have a opposite view including myself. But to accuse the Bishops of intentionally promoting an illegal activity I think is wrong


44 posted on 06/14/2006 7:43:39 PM PDT by catholicfreeper (I am Blogging for the GOP and Victory O6 at www.theponderingamerican.blogspot.com)
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To: buccaneer81

The Church has never said that Priest "Must" be celibate. However it is the discipline in the latin rite that can be changed in the future.


45 posted on 06/14/2006 7:45:36 PM PDT by catholicfreeper (I am Blogging for the GOP and Victory O6 at www.theponderingamerican.blogspot.com)
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To: garbageseeker

Should the Catholic Church meddle in the abortion laws of this country? As an Orthodox and conservative Catholic that supports the Church's efforts to ban abortion in this country, I don't see how a like minded conservative Catholic could complain if the Church takes an interest in the immigration laws of this country. In fact if a person did so they would not be consistent in their reasoning or politcal activity


46 posted on 06/14/2006 7:49:05 PM PDT by catholicfreeper (I am Blogging for the GOP and Victory O6 at www.theponderingamerican.blogspot.com)
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To: flaglady47

whoops, leave = least


47 posted on 06/14/2006 7:51:48 PM PDT by flaglady47
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To: SunkenCiv
The predominantly Catholic immigrant wave could mean the overturn of Roe v Wade.

So any means to an end?

48 posted on 06/14/2006 7:52:41 PM PDT by stevio (Red-Blooded Crunchy Con American Male (NRA))
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To: catholicfreeper
Finally, the Church is not promoting illegal activity. I can find nothing in this document that says they wish for illegal immigration to continue.

Its implicit that they are promoting an illegal beavior.
49 posted on 06/14/2006 7:54:45 PM PDT by garbageseeker
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To: garbageseeker
That is why I posted it. I wanted to everyone to see that the Church is promoting this behavior.

Is this normal Masonic behavior? To trash a Church you don't even belong to?

The Catholic Church has supported regularizing the illegals who are in this country for a very long time. It's no surprise to any Catholic.

The bishops are in almost unanimous agreement on this.

What position does your Church take?

50 posted on 06/14/2006 7:56:14 PM PDT by sinkspur (Today, we settled all family business.)
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To: catholicfreeper
I don't see how a like minded conservative Catholic could complain if the Church takes an interest in the immigration laws of this country. In fact if a person did so they would not be consistent in their reasoning or politcal activity

Did Jesus not say "Render unto Caesar's the thing which are Caesar's, and unto God's the things that are God's, meaning that the Church to keep politics seperate from ceratin ofther fields, such as religion.
51 posted on 06/14/2006 7:58:31 PM PDT by garbageseeker
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To: garbageseeker
Did Jesus not say "Render unto Caesar's the thing which are Caesar's, and unto God's the things that are God's, meaning that the Church to keep politics seperate from ceratin ofther fields, such as religion.

The Church sees immigration as a moral issue, not a political one.

Sorry if you don't agree, but the Church has taken an interest in social justice issues for millenia.

52 posted on 06/14/2006 8:00:26 PM PDT by sinkspur (Today, we settled all family business.)
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To: sinkspur
The Catholic Church has supported regularizing the illegals who are in this country for a very long time. It's no surprise to any Catholic.

Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar,and unto God's the things that are God's.
53 posted on 06/14/2006 8:01:14 PM PDT by garbageseeker
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To: garbageseeker
The Church sees immigration as a moral issue, not a political one.

But its a political one being debated by elected politicans in Washington D.C. They will be passing the law not the Church
54 posted on 06/14/2006 8:03:20 PM PDT by garbageseeker
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To: garbageseeker
You take that saying of Jesus out of context. He was talking about paying the tax to Caesar with the coin that was Caesar's, but demanding that the Pharisees recognize that all things came from God.

Immigration is a moral issue. What does your Church say about immigration?

55 posted on 06/14/2006 8:03:26 PM PDT by sinkspur (Today, we settled all family business.)
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To: garbageseeker

In this Republic the problem is that we are the ordinary Citizen is pretty much Caesar. THere fore as Catholics and Caesar at the same time we need guidance from the Church because what we Catholics do as "caesar" impact millions


56 posted on 06/14/2006 8:03:27 PM PDT by catholicfreeper (I am Blogging for the GOP and Victory O6 at www.theponderingamerican.blogspot.com)
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To: garbageseeker
But its a political one being debated by elected politicans in Washington D.C. They will be passing the law not the Church

The same could be said about abortion. Should the Catholic Church say nothing about abortion?

57 posted on 06/14/2006 8:04:58 PM PDT by sinkspur (Today, we settled all family business.)
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To: sinkspur
You missed the meaning all together. The meaning is that keep politics separate from certain other fields such as religion. That Church should not be meddling in the affairs of the state.
58 posted on 06/14/2006 8:05:57 PM PDT by garbageseeker
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To: sinkspur

Yes, that issue that is political.


59 posted on 06/14/2006 8:07:00 PM PDT by garbageseeker
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To: garbageseeker
That Church should not be meddling in the affairs of the state.

Abortion is an affair of the state. Should Churches stay out of any discussion of abortion?

60 posted on 06/14/2006 8:07:27 PM PDT by sinkspur (Today, we settled all family business.)
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