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To: GrandEagle
In addition this statement is extremely troubling to me "Suppressing evidence is too high of a penalty, Scalia said, for errors in police searches. " Since the police have immunity from prosecution the ONLY avenue to assure that the police observe the law is to simply make it useless not to. In this particular issue, would agree that just because they didn't knock first (assuming they did have a legally acquired warrant) is no reason to throw out the charges. However, as a general, broad viewpoint this gives LE the green light to do anything they please regardless of the law because the end justifies the means. I STRONGLY disagree!

I think there's a big difference between a good-faith error and LE abuse, etc.. In either case, people who have their door smashed in, hit with a flash-bang, etc. at the wrong address have a legitimate beef, and can successfully sue the responsible government agency. As a former LEO, I can assure you that mistakes like those are not taken lightly by their superiors.

If you were to defend your home against perceived intruders, especially if they were found to be at the wrong place, I seriously doubt that you'd have any legal problems to worry about. Plenty of other problems, but I doubt anybody would be throwing you in jail for it.

I agree with the ruling. Mistakes with no-knock warrants are clearly the exception, which is why they make great news stories. The overwhelming majority of the time, these are used effectively to take down bad guys.

However, as a general, broad viewpoint this gives LE the green light to do anything they please regardless of the law because the end justifies the means.

I believe this is an overreaction. LE never has the green light to do "anything they please". Yes, there are cops who get way out of control. They're a problem, and should be dealt with severely, IMO. But that's no reason to take a critical tool--no-knock warrants--out of the hands of the large number of good, honest, dedicated officers who simply want to nail bad guys before they have the chance to flush all the evidence.

74 posted on 06/15/2006 9:05:35 AM PDT by TChris ("Wake up, America. This is serious." - Ben Stein)
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To: TChris
and can successfully sue the responsible government agency.
Your point is well taken, although I disagree. I can sue only in the unlikely event that I survive the encounter.

I would also disagree that "LE never has the green light to do "anything they please". Yes, there are cops who get way out of control. They're a problem, and should be dealt with severely,"
The only reason that LE doesn't have a green light is because if they don't follow the rules it is useless and the bad guys get away. I have seen things from a non LE point of view a few times.
The city of Mobile has a "traffic " court that isn't even a legal court system according to an attorney that I used. It is a sham where you are not allowed representation and intimidation is used to get you to pay up and shut up.
How you handle it, according to my attorney, is you go, plead innocent, you are found guilty, then you request an appeal, demanding a jury trial. Now you get into a legally operating court system. It is a lot of hassle, and the city makes lots of money because it is simply easier to pay and be quiet.
This is why I moved out of Mobile. I have gotten several "speeding" ticket from the city's mobile, roadside, tax collectors. Only one of which I was actually speeding. Technically two, but 32 in a 30 is really hard to determine on the speedometer.
One I got because I had a radar detector (I believe). Mind you, they are not illegal. I was in bumper to bumper, 4-lane traffic running about 42 in a 45. She pulled me over and gave me a ticket for 69 in a 45. She wrote on the ticket that she clocked me using radar. After reading the ticket, I pointed out that she didn't have radar and she just laughed and said - and I quote -"prove it".
Second instance I pulled up to a red light that had a red arrow pointing to the right. Officer pulled up behind me flashing his headlights and blowing his horn trying to get me to turn right on red. He did not have his blue lights on so I didn't. When the light turned green, I have the turn and he zoomed by me, flipping me off.
Turns out that a red arrow pointing to the right was not defined y Alabama law at the time. I called to complain and was referred to internal affairs. I called, and they took down my information. Within three weeks I had 3 speeding tickets and a reckless driving ticket. Two of the speeding tickets were for 80 MPH - the big ones, the other I had not even pulled out of the apartment parking lot! I backed out of the parking spot, pulled up to the stop sign (about 20 feet), and he hit the blues. All of these were simply made up.
The only way I didn't lose my license was to attend extortion (driving) school in exchange for the city dropping the tickets. I had to attend once for each ticket, and after the second time (as I found out) the school can charge what they want to. All total it cost me just under $800.00 because I called internal affairs.
This is all made possable because there is no penality for LE, no down side. That is when I moved to the county - out of the city. Our Sheriff's department IMHO is one of the finest, and I have had no problems out here (I've been here for 13 years).
I'm going to say this, and I do intend it respectfully to you, a fellow freeper, so I hope you don't get too irritated.
You can talk about how pious and righteous LE is just doing their best to protect us from the bad guys, but I don't buy it. There are some really good guys out there I'll admit, but the power and authority, coupled with the human nature, causes good men to develop a really bad attitude. I don't trust them at all.
I've seen the lie in the witness chair, I've been on the grand jury and had them lie through their teeth, I've seen them simply make up things just because they could. I've heard DEA guys laugh about planting stuff to get the bad guys because "everyone knows they sell drugs". Well, IMHO, these are the guys that belong in jail.

Without strictly enforced rules, we would be in serious trouble. I am opposed to giving LE any "tools" that are subjective. Don't take me wrong, there are some really good guys out there. Our Sheriff's department IMHO is a shining example of that.
82 posted on 06/15/2006 9:53:20 AM PDT by GrandEagle
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To: TChris

But that's no reason to take a critical tool--no-knock warrants--out of the hands of the large number of good, honest, dedicated officers who simply want to nail bad guys before they have the chance to flush all the evidence.

Only user amount of drugs and small time dealers (usually those that deal to support their habit) can be flushed. Dealer quantities of drugs are to large to dispose of quickly. 

Besides that, drug users and even dealers engage in consensual "crimes". They are not murders, thieves or rapists whose targets/victims do not consent.

88 posted on 06/15/2006 10:27:07 AM PDT by Zon (Honesty outlives the lie, spin and deception -- It always has -- It always will.)
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