Posted on 06/17/2006 12:17:03 PM PDT by Dark Skies
Two of the leaders of European Muslim opinion clashed dramatically yesterday on the position and future of the Muslim communities in European states.
Tariq Ramadan, the Swiss-born intellectual and grandson of the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood, and Ayaan Hirsi Ali, the Somalian-born Dutch MP who was stripped of her Dutch citizenship over allegations of a falsified application for citizenship, displayed in personal form the bitterness of a debate which both agreed convulses their co-religionists.
Ms Hirsi Ali, who has taken an atheist position and lives under secret service protection becauseof threats to her life, toldthe annual conference organised by the Ax:son Johnson Foundation that leaders of Muslim opinion "must discriminate between Islam as it is and Islam as it could be" - and said that Mr Ramadan, whom she described as a "handsome and articulate leader of opinion", had failed to do so.
"You must start from Islam as it is today. The great number of Muslims believe that the Koran is the absolute word of God; few believe it is a historic document. The number of people who believe the Prophet literally are much more numerous than those who see him as a historical figure.
"Why are large groups of Muslims leaving their countries? Nearly all Muslim countries are tyrannies, authoritarian, or failed states. Islamic states are in a terrible crisis. There is a lack of freedom; a lack of knowledge; and there is a subjugation of women. No wonder people leave," she said.
She agreed with previous speakers from Britain and Denmark that there was an over-representation of young Muslim men in prison, and that there was "a micro-climate of fear for women".
Mr Ramadan said it was wrong to suggest that Muslims were in Europe to proselytise, and wrong to say that Europe had a Judaeo-Christian past.
"Islam is a European religion. The Muslims came here after the first and second world wars to rebuild Europe, not to colonise. It is a mistake to deny complexity. When we speak about Islam we speak about terrorism; you are focusing on the few who are destroying and not the millions who are building. Muslims are in great majority law-abiding," he said.
He argued against some who said that there would be a clash between native Europeans and European Muslims and that no integration was now possible. "Integration is done: you can't go back. Social problems can't be Islamised," he said.
In a direct and sometimes heated argument, Mr Ramadan said: "My problem with you [Hirsi Ali] is that you are saying it is a problem with Muslims. Are you working to change a mentality - or to please the western audience?"
Ms Hirsi Ali said Mr Ramadan was guilty of ambiguity, and that if he believed in reconciliation, he should found a "Ramadanist" movement and fight for it.
There's a new one!
In recent times Islam has been driven out of its traditional homes in Europe, but after WWII, Moslems were invited in as guest workers.
Europeans are, so to speak, ambivalent about Islam ~ in fact, in France more worry is expressed about what Evangelicals might be up to than what the Moslems are doing.
To say that Europe did not have a Judaeo-Christian past is objectively wrong. They may not have a Judaeo-Christian present or future, but that is because the Europe has tossed out Christianity and turned to hedonism and socialism.
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