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Why Islam Is In Shambles (Vy important repost...an Iranian perspect on islam)
Persian Journal ^ | 6/17/2006 | Amil Imani

Posted on 06/17/2006 4:55:35 PM PDT by Dark Skies

Islam is in shambles for a variety of reasons. A major problem with Islam is that there are as many different versions of Islam as there are Islamic pundits and there are legions of them.

Another reason why Islam is in shambles is that it is all things to all people. Even a cursory study of the Qur'an, the immutable word of God, as Muslims see it; the Hadith, the authoritative sayings of the Prophet; and, the Sunna, the Prophet's life conduct, present a body of contradictory and even outright erroneous information. This body of Islamic doctrine enables a person to pick and choose the parts he likes and ignore those he doesn't like. This feature explains why some of the good as well as the most beastly people are Muslims. Amazingly enough, both types justify themselves and their behavior by selectively citing from the Qur'an, the Hadith and the Sunna.

Here is only one example of taking an Islamic teaching as you prefer it. The Qur'an admonishes the believers: Jahedoo fee sabeel-u-llah�make jihad for the cause of God. Literally translated, this phrase directs the believers to exert themselves in service to the cause of God. The catch is in the word "exert." Some Muslims understand it as spiritual exertion. Other Muslims take it as a commandment to exert themselves by the sword. And both can be right because the rest of the Qur'an not only fails to clarify the statement, but adds further substance to each position. It is in cases like this that the pronouncements of the Islamic high divines can sway the balance in favor of one or the other. Unfortunately, not many voices of Islamic authorities are raised on the side of tolerance, peacefulness and other positive teachings of Islam. The most one hears from Islamic apologists are time-worn and banal pronouncements such as "Islam is a religion of peace."

It is a sad fact that generation after generation of Sunni Moftis�highest ranking Sunni clerics�and Ayatollahs�highest ranking Shiite clerics, over the years have indoctrinated their underling clergy as well as the masses with selective teachings that promote intolerance, exclusion and hostility toward non-Muslims�people labeled as heathens, infidels, unbelievers and apostates. Selective choice of the scripture, combined with a siege mentality endemic to the cradle of Islam, the Middle East, generate a fury of hatred that has the potential of devouring the world. If only Muslims could purge the negative aspects of its scripture and practice its positive teachings, the world would become a diverse community of humanity at peace with one another.

The question is: Is that possible or are we headed for the clash of the civilizations?

There are some wonderful statements in the Qur'an. One, for instance, says: The most beloved amongst you in the sight of God is the one who is the most virtuous. Not the rich, not the powerful and not the hateful. The most virtuous is most beloved, it says. Yet the radical Islamists have come to interpret killing and maiming the infidels as great acts of virtue, acts that would make them most beloved by God.

Reforming Islam is unfortunately not a realistic possibility. About the only universal agreement that exists among Islamic authorities is that every word of the Qur'an is the word of God and is not subject to human modification, ever. The 'Hadith' also enjoys a similar sacrosanct standing. And of course, the faithful Muhammad's conduct as recorded in the Sunna is the model to be emulated. Hence, one can pick and choose, but one can not discard or revise any part of the scripture. For this reason a Martin Luther type reformation has not happened and will not likely ever happen within Islam.

Islam's detractors point out numerous absurdities in the Islamic scripture. In fairness to Islam, we can find just as many perceived absurdities in other religious scriptures. Many of the scriptures' absurdities may, in fact, be allegories, metaphors, similes and symbols. Islamic scripture, for instance, records that Muhammad split the moon in half with his sword. Clearly, splitting the moon must be taken symbolically. Some claim that in this case "moon" stood for high ranking religious divines of the time and Muhammad destroyed them by the sword of his new faith. It was the material sword that sallied forth out of the Arabian dessert and forced Islam on people far and wide.

The fact that Islam is a splintered house complicates matters greatly. The faith is divided into Sunni and Shiites sects with numerous sub-sects. The divisions and contentiousness are so profound that members of one sect consider the other Muslims as apostates worthy of death. The division goes back to the time of the Prophet himself. Shiites believe that the enemies of true faith subverted its chain of authority at Muhammad's death. They claim that the Prophet, while on his deathbed, asked for a parchment to dictate his will and to appoint Ali, his cousin and son-in-law, as his successor. The Shiites claim that Omar, an influential disciple and commander of the faith, declined the request saying to the Prophet: hasbena ketab-ul-llah�sufficient unto us is the book of God. Before long, division and infighting started in earnest and continues to this day. Oppression of Shiite minorities in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are only two glaring instances of this longstanding and irreconcilable intra-faith hostility. The Shiite majorities in other lands return the favor to the Sunni minorities, as is the case in Iran. The recent horrific sectarian killings in Iraq represent glaring instances of irreconcilable differences among the various claimants to the mantle of true Islam.

The Bible says, "By their fruits shall ye know them." The fruits of Islam are there for everyone to see for himself. Islam may have given the world some choice fruits. It has assuredly given the world many poisonous fruits as well.

Some claim that Islam is inherently good, the majority of Muslims are good and only a small minority has hijacked the good faith of Muhammad by engaging in acts of intolerance, hatred and violence. The question is: why is it that the good Islam is not ruling in the world and the bad Islam is engulfing it in fire? Human nature is the culprit, in part. We humans are attracted to hate like flies are to honey. Hate is an easy sell. It is appealing and little effort is required to hate. Hate gathers up the person's or the group's frustrations, anxieties, fears, paranoia and many other negative emotions in one handy bundle and hurls it at a convenient target. History is replete with instances of hate energizing the masses into commitment of small and large scale atrocities.

Sell hate and people queue several blocks to buy. Sell love and you will be mostly by your lonely self. Is this a cynical view? No, it is a realistic one. It describes human's lower and primitive nature which must be painstakingly overcome through persistent education and awakening of man's higher nature.

Religious high authorities play a critical role in steering the masses toward or away from hate. The late Pope's public pronouncement, for instance, absolving the Jews as the Christ killers has reduced anti-Semitism among the rank and file Christians. Fatwas�religious decrees�by Islamic Moftis and Ayatollahs carry considerable weight with their respective followers. Sadly, most decrees and adjudications of these high Islamic authorities are exclusionary and even hostile toward the out-groups. These high divines are the suppliers of opinions as well as the teachers of the rank and file clergy who take the same ideas to the masses in villages and cities. Madresehs in Pakistan, schools in Saudi Arabia and Maktabs�religious schools�in Iran, as well as numberless mosques serve as places where the disease of hate can be transmitted with considerable success to the just too willing believers.

This virulent disease of hate of "others," is now leaving its traditional Muslim lands and infecting cities, towns and villages of the larger world. Muslims believe that the earth is Allah's and all of it rightfully belongs to the Muslims. Non-Muslims in any land are simply usurpers and occupiers who must either convert to Islam or give way to the legitimate people�the Muslims.

In Islam's theocracy, religious authority is conferred by an informal consensus of the peer group. One becomes an Ayatollah, for instance, by demonstrating to other ayatollahs his undeviating devotion to the dogma they hold. If one deviates from the accepted line, he is not likely to make a village mullah, much less an Ayatollah. This is a systemic problem that is not amenable to change. It is a pathological theological inbreeding.

Islam or religions in general are sources of energy. The energy can achieve magnificent things or destroy anything. It is up to us to put religion to good use, as people have done for millennia, and to avoid using it as a weapon of death and destruction�again, as people have done so for millennia.

In the Islamic theocracies, everyone pretends publicly his undeviating belief in the faith, as preached and promoted in his locality. If there are any unbelievers, doubters or atheists, they have to hide, not in closets, but in deep subterranean holes. Pressure to be religious is so great that pretending piety is an art form. Yet, much of religious ado is per forma rituals. Admittedly, things are hardly any better in the non-Islamic lands. People, once a week, go to a religious service, repent of their sin, pay up and go back to a life of sin for the next six days in a sinful world.

Perhaps there is a way out of the present impasse with Islam. Iran's President Ahmadinejad has invited President George W. Bush, albeit in a convoluted eighteen page epistle, to embrace Islam. Ahmadinejad seems to think that Bush is the most powerful man in the world. He must have concluded that if Bush were to embrace Islam, the masses of infidels would follow his example.

Let us for a moment accept Ahmadinejad's summon. Question: Which sect of Islam and which one of its numberless sub-sects should we join? Beside the two major branches of Sunnis and Shiite, there are dozens and dozens of sub-sects, and schools, each of which is mortally convinced they represent the only true Islam. Ahmadinejad's own brand of Islam is alien to the majority of even the Shiites. He is reportedly a devout member of a remodeled and secretive hate-based Hojjatieh which is presently operating under the guise of the Haghani sect under the leadership of a most close-minded fanatical leader�Ayatollah Mesbah Yazdi.

Further complications present themselves. Space limitation does not allow presenting all of them here. Only one should suffice for now. One of the issues Muslims, worldwide, are in general agreement on is the status of women. It places women squarely under the thumb of men. It says in the Quran: Alrejaalo qawaamoon al-alnesa�men are rulers over women. Women of non-Islamic world have valiantly worked to attain a degree of equality with men. They are not likely to barter their hard-earned rights for the privilege of becoming head-to-toe covered second class citizens, deprived of education and opportunities. We, non-Muslim men, are not going to leave our emancipated, fully participating and contributing members of our society behind and subjugate ourselves to a barbaric set of Shriah laws which were enacted by stone-age mentality.

In conclusion, Islam is not only divided, it is shattered. It is in shambles, long past fixing itself, much less ruling the rest of the world. It is time that Muslims, those who consider themselves good and peaceful, as well as those who want us to accept their ideology of barbarism at the point of the sword, to take the fateful step and join the free and emancipated family of humanity. There is no going back. Barbarism is in our past.

Amil Imani is an Iranian born, pro-democracy activist who resides in the United States of America. Imani is a poet, writer, literary translator, novelist and an essayist who has been writing and speaking out for the struggling people of his native land, Iran. He maintains a website at www.amilimani.com.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; War on Terror
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1 posted on 06/17/2006 4:55:38 PM PDT by Dark Skies
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To: Admin Moderator; All; amin
This article was posted earlier in "bloggers and personal" because the author is a Freeper. It has now received a response from a variety of news sources and, IMHO, should be posted in "News/Activism" here at FR.

I think all readers will find this article very interesting and articulate.

Special thx to the Admin Mods for giving it a rerun.

2 posted on 06/17/2006 4:58:57 PM PDT by Dark Skies (Zarqawi latest comment: "I guess allah isn't so 'akbar' after all.")
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To: Dark Skies
Barbarism is in our past.

Barbarism Begins At Home

3 posted on 06/17/2006 5:06:28 PM PDT by edpc
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To: Dark Skies

This post seems to imply that sectarianism and divisions are uniquely Islamic, and that these sects think the others are worthy of death.

I looked up the number of Christian denominations once and, if I remember rightly, the number was some 60,000. And there is a substantial number of those that believe that unless the others repent, they are bound for hell.

The difference seems to be that very few of the Christian denominations believe it is their call to send those they disagree with to hell.

Vengence is mine, sayeth the Lord.


4 posted on 06/17/2006 5:13:32 PM PDT by seowulf
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To: Dark Skies
islam:

i diots

s imulating

l ife

a s

m en

5 posted on 06/17/2006 5:17:12 PM PDT by muir_redwoods (Free Sirhan Sirhan, after all, the bastard who killed Mary Jo Kopechne is walking around free)
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To: Dark Skies
Amil Imani is an Iranian born, pro-democracy activist who resides in the United States of America.

I didn't get the impression he was in Iran.
6 posted on 06/17/2006 5:17:55 PM PDT by UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide (Give Them Liberty Or Give Them Death! - IT'S ISLAM, STUPID! - Islam Delenda Est! - Rumble thee forth)
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To: seowulf
That's pretty much the big difference. Western Christianity came to terms with itself over a very long period beginning in the late 15th century and ending with the accession of Louis XVI to the French throne.

The American Revolution hammered home that settlement in the First Three Amendments in the Bill of Rights.

Islam is probably beyond reform. On the other hand, a vigorous, store-front driven, fundamentalist and Pentecostal Christian movement has sufficient flexibility to give these people what they really want. This may well require US military protection for the foreseeable future.

7 posted on 06/17/2006 5:18:08 PM PDT by muawiyah (-)
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To: Dark Skies
A Selection of Islam's Greatest "Hits"

MUSLIMS INSTRUCTED TO KILL CHRISTIANS AND JEWS [9:29-30] JUST FOR SPEAKING AGAINST ISLAM [9:32]!

KORAN [9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

KORAN [9.30] And the Jews say: Uzair [Ezra] is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!

FREEDOM OF SPEECH IS PROHIBITED:

KORAN [9.32] They desire to put out the light of Allah with their mouths, and Allah will not consent save to perfect His light, though the unbelievers are averse.

THIS IS MUHAMMAD'S EXAMPLE JUSTIFYING THE KILLING OF DUTCH FILM MAKER THEO van GOGH:

Hadith Sahih Muslim, Book 19, Chapter 41: THE MURDER OF KA'B B. ASHRAF, (THE EVIL GENIUS) OF THE JEWS [for authoring songs and jokes about Muhammad]

HADITH Sahih Muslim [19:4436] It has been narrated on the authority of Jabir that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said:
Who will kill Ka'b b. Ashraf? He has maligned Allah, the Exalted, and His Messenger. Muhammad b. Maslama said: Messenger of Allah, do you wish that I should kill him? He said: Yes.
He said: Permit me to talk (to him in the way I deem fit). He said: Talk (as you like). So, Muhammad b. Maslama came to Ka'b and talked to him, referred to the old friendship between them and said: This man (i. e. the Holy Prophet) has made up his mind to collect charity (from us) and this has put us to a great hardship. When be heard this, Ka'b said: By God, you will be put to more trouble by him. Muhammad b. Maslama said: No doubt, now we have become his followers and we do not like to forsake him until we see what turn his affairs will take. I want that you should give me a loan. He said: What will you mortgage? He said: What do you want? He said: Pledge me your women. He said: You are the most handsome of the Arabs; should we pledge our women to you? He said: Pledge me your children. He said: The son of one of us may abuse us saying that he was pledged for two wasqs of dates, but we can pledge you (cur) weapons. He said: All right. Then Muhammad b. Maslama promised that he would come to him with Harith, Abu 'Abs b. Jabr and Abbad b. Bishr. So they came and called upon him at night. He came down to them. Sufyan says that all the narrators except 'Amr have stated that his wife said: I hear a voice which sounds like the voice of murder. He said: It is only Muhammad b. Maslama and his foster-brother, Abu Na'ila. When a gentleman is called at night even it to be pierced with a spear, he should respond to the call. Muhammad said to his companions: As he comes down, I will extend my hands towards his head and when I hold him fast, you should do your job. So when he came down and he was holding his cloak under his arm, they said to him: We sense from you a very fine smell. He said: Yes, I have with me a mistress who is the most scented of the women of Arabia. He said: Allow me to smell (the scent on your head). He said: Yes, you may smell. So he caught it and smelt. Then he said: Allow me to do so (once again). He then held his head fast and said to his companions: Do your job. And they killed him.

APOSTATES AND "young people with foolish thoughts"
TO BE KILLED BY ANYONE WHO FINDS THEM (e.g. honor killings):

KORAN [4.89] They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.

HADITH Sahih Bukhari [4:52:260] Narrated Ikrima:
Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "

HADITH Sahih Bukhari [6:61:577] Narrated 'Ali:
I heard the Prophet saying, "In the last days (of the world) there will appear young people with foolish thoughts and ideas. They will give good talks, but they will go out of Islam as an arrow goes out of its game, their faith will not exceed their throats. So, wherever you find them, kill them, for there will be a reward for their killers on the Day of Resurrection."

HADITH Sahih Bukhari [9:84:64] Narrated 'Ali:
Whenever I tell you a narration from Allah's Apostle, by Allah, I would rather fall down from the sky than ascribe a false statement to him, but if I tell you something between me and you (not a Hadith) then it was indeed a trick (i.e., I may say things just to cheat my enemy). No doubt I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "During the last days there will appear some young foolish people who will say the best words but their faith will not go beyond their throats (i.e. they will have no faith) and will go out from (leave) their religion as an arrow goes out of the game. So, where-ever you find them, kill them, for who-ever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection."

AND MODERATE MUSLIMS TOO:

HADITH Sahih Muslim [5:2325] Abu Sa'id al-Khudri reported that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said:
A group would secede itself (from the Ummah) when there would be dissension among the Muslims. Out of the two groups who would be nearer the truth would kill them.

Unlike Christians, Muslims can pretend to deny their faith to fool unbelievers (Al-Taqiyyah):

KORAN [16.106] He who disbelieves in Allah after his having believed, not he who is compelled while his heart is at rest on account of faith, but he who opens (his) breast to disbelief-- on these is the wrath of Allah, and they shall have a grievous chastisement.

UNEQUAL JUSTICE:

HADITH Sahih Bukhari [4:52:283] Narrated Abu Juhaifa:
I asked Ali, "Do you have the knowledge of any Divine Inspiration besides what is in Allah's Book?" 'Ali replied, "...we have what is written in this paper as well." I asked, "What is written in this paper?" He replied, "...the judgment that no Muslim should be killed for killing an infidel."

HADITH Sunan Abu Dawud [14:2526] Narrated Anas ibn Malik:
The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Three things are the roots of faith: to refrain from (killing) a person who utters, "There is no god but Allah" and not to declare him unbeliever whatever sin he commits, and not to excommunicate him from Islam for his any action; and jihad will be performed continuously since the day Allah sent me as a prophet until the day the last member of my community will fight with the Dajjal (Antichrist). The tyranny of any tyrant and the justice of any just (ruler) will not invalidate it. One must have faith in Divine decree.

WOMEN (and girls) IN ISLAM:

KORAN [2.223] Your wives are a tilth for you, so go into your tilth when you like, and do good beforehand for yourselves, and be careful (of your duty) to Allah, and know that you will meet Him, and give good news to the believers.

KORAN [4.34] Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

HADITH Sahih Bukhari [7:62:67] Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, "A matron should not be given in marriage except after consulting her; and a virgin should not be given in marriage except after her permission." The people asked, "O Allah's Apostle! How can we know her permission?" He said, "Her silence (indicates her permission)."

HADITH Sahih Bukhari [5:58:234] Narrated Aisha:
The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.

HADITH Sahih Bukhari [7:62:64] Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

THE JOOOOOOZ IN ISLAM:

KORAN [9.30] And the Jews say: Uzair [Ezra] is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!

KORAN [5.51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

HADITH Sahih Bukhari [4:52:176] Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:
Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.' "

HADITH Sahih Bukhari [4:52:177] Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

HADITH Sahih Bukhari [4:56:791] Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:
I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "The Jews will fight with you, and you will be given victory over them so that a stone will say, 'O Muslim! There is a Jew behind me; kill him!' "

HADITH Sahih Muslim [41:6981] Ibn 'Umar reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying:
You will fight against the Jews and you will kill them until even a stone would say: Come here, Muslim, there is a Jew (hiding himself behind me); kill him.

HADITH Sahih Muslim [41:6982] Ubaidullah has reported this hadith with this chain of transmitters (and the Words are):
"There is a Jew behind me."

HADITH Sahih Muslim [41:6983] Abdullah b. 'Umar reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying:
You and the Jews would fight against one another until a stone would say: Muslim, here is a Jew behind me; come and kill him.

HADITH Sahih Muslim [41:6984] Abdullah b. 'Umar reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said:
The Jews will fight against you and you will gain victory over them until the stone would say: Muslim, here is a Jew behind me; kill him.

HADITH Sahih Muslim [41:6985] Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying:
The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.

© Religion of Peace

KORAN (Shakir translation): http://www.hti.umich.edu/k/koran/
HADITH: http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/searchhadith.html

ISLAM DELENDA EST!

8 posted on 06/17/2006 5:21:30 PM PDT by UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide (Give Them Liberty Or Give Them Death! - IT'S ISLAM, STUPID! - Islam Delenda Est! - Rumble thee forth)
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To: Dark Skies

Islam --Satanism. A rose by any other name.


9 posted on 06/17/2006 5:35:26 PM PDT by sgtbono2002 (The fourth estate is a fifth column.)
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To: Dark Skies

>For this reason a Martin Luther type reformation has not
>happened and will not likely ever happen within Islam.

The Reformation was a reformation TOWARD OBEYING THE TEXT, nor toward pretending certain parts did not exist.


10 posted on 06/17/2006 5:35:33 PM PDT by ROTB
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Comment #11 Removed by Moderator

To: UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide

Mohammed! Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.


12 posted on 06/17/2006 5:38:58 PM PDT by seowulf
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To: Dark Skies
The question is: Is that possible or are we headed for the clash of the civilizations?

It seems to me that we are already in this clash.

I for one will dispute that our opponents are in any way, shape, or form civilized.

They are not.

islam is not a religion. It's a death cult started by a syphilitic caravan raiding mad pedophile on par with thugee cult and should be dealt with the same way.

L

13 posted on 06/17/2006 5:39:08 PM PDT by Lurker (When decadence pervades the corridors of power, depravity walks the side streets.)
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To: Dark Skies

If the author is, indeed, correct that there are those two translations for "jihad", History and the well chronicled exploits of The Prophet incline toward only the violent interpretation.


14 posted on 06/17/2006 5:39:12 PM PDT by arthurus (It was better to fight them OVER THERE than here.)
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To: Dark Skies

And both can be right because the rest of the Qur'an not only fails to clarify the statement..."

Nope.

We have, after all, the life and deeds of the muderous, demonic prophet himself if we are unclear on anything in the various writings.


15 posted on 06/17/2006 5:43:56 PM PDT by TalBlack
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To: Dark Skies

I'd suggest Buddhism as a first step. Maybe Sikh as a baby step.


16 posted on 06/17/2006 5:48:11 PM PDT by Paladin2 (If the political indictment's from Fitz, the jury always acquits.)
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To: sgtbono2002
You are correct IMO...but moderate muslims don't see it. Yet.

We must finds the chinks in the armor of islam. We must find its Achilles heel.

And moderates must be brought to the light...away from the evil of "real" islam.

Just my thoughts however.

17 posted on 06/17/2006 6:07:29 PM PDT by Dark Skies (Zarqawi latest comment: "I guess allah isn't so 'akbar' after all.")
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To: Dark Skies

We can certainly use people trying to reform Islam from within, and possibly to figure out some way of reconciling it to modern ideas of freedom.

There is, however, a major difference between Christianity and Judaism on the one side and Islam on the other. There have certainly been wicked and violent Christians and wicked and violent Jews. But Islam was founded by a "prophet" who himself was violent, took slaves, broke his sworn oath, had sexual relations with a 9-year-old child, and in general exhibited all sorts of atrocious behavior.

Jesus didn't go around cutting off people's heads, enslaving them, or raping them. Muhammed did. I find that difficult to get around. For the most part, the best Muslims seem to be those who don't take their religion too seriously.


18 posted on 06/17/2006 6:08:27 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide

All this talk about hating and fighting and killing is, IMHO, not very God-like.

In fact, it seems to be more in the manner of Satan.


19 posted on 06/17/2006 6:13:16 PM PDT by airborne (Satan's greatest trick was convincing people he doesn't exist.)
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To: Dark Skies
Image hosted by Photobucket.com this is from an Iranian, a Persian... and they are VERY different in culture, history and thinking than all the Arab GoatHumpers.

too often people lump all the INAZIs together because they all seem to have the same end in mind, but they go about it in different ways and that always has to be taken into account when assessing their rhetoric from their actions.

20 posted on 06/17/2006 6:21:53 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist )
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