Tsar admits: we've lost the war on drugs

The Scotsman ^ | Sun 18 Jun 2006 | MARCELLO MEGA AND KATE FOSTER

[gandalftb]

If "War is hell." is what you tell the court in defense of your family and friends:

A. The court will find them innocent as they must have used drugs to counter your influence.

B. You will likely find yourself very alone from then on.

Look, it's real easy to throw out some cheap talk on FR just to get everyone reaching for the Rolaids. Okay, you win. Now, can we contain this debate to the rational?

[durasell]

Now, can we contain this debate to the rational?




The only rational thing is to stop looking for or expecting a complete victory. We keeping fighting the good fight and figure out how to fight it better.

[RedStateRocker]

"Stopping people from ruining their lives by screwing up their brain chemistry isn't worth the cost of living in a police state"

Sums it up in one sentence. Brilliant.

[Ken H]

Why didn't Singapore lose its war on drugs?

"The GOS [Government of Singapore] nonetheless is concerned about the increase in addiction rates and recidivism among drug offenders who have undergone treatment. There are currently about 9,000 addicts undergoing rehabilitation in Singapore treatment centers, the same number as in 1995."

--http://www.state.gov/www/global/narcotics_law/1996_narc_report/index.html

The Netherlands-- "Demand Reduction. The Netherlands has extensive demand reduction programs and low­threshold medical services for addicts, who are also offered drug rehabilitation programs. Authorities believe such programs reach about 70­80 percent of the country's 25,000 hard­drug users. [my note: in a total population of 15.1 million]

--http://www.state.gov/www/global/narcotics_law/1996_narc_report/index.html

_______________________________________

Using a population of 3 million for Singapore in 1996, that works out to an addiction rate of about 0.30%. Using the State Dept. figures for the Netherlands, and a population of 15.1 million, the addiction rate was about 0.17%.

Also note that the Singapore figure only takes into account the addicts under treatment, whereas the figure for Holland is the estimate of the total number of addicts.

[seasoned traditionalist]

Drug War Clock

http://www.drugsense.org/wodclock.htm

It is Sun Jun 18 2006

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Money Spent on the War On Drugs this Year

Federal $9,350,937,619
State $14,353,743,309
Total $23,704,833,150

The U.S. federal government spent over $19 billion dollars in 2003 on the War on Drugs, at a rate of about $600 per second. The budget has since been increased by over a billion dollars.

Source: Office of National Drug Control Policy

State and local governments spent at least another 30 billion.

Source: National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse at Columbia University: "Shoveling Up: The Impact of Substance Abuse on State Budgets," January, 2001.

People Arrested for Drug Law Offenses this Year

Arrests for drug law violations in 2006 are expected to exceed the 1,678,192 arrests of 2003.

Someone is arrested every 20 seconds.

Source: Uniform Crime Reports, Federal Bureau of Investigation

People Arrested for Cannabis Law Offenses this Year

In 2002, 45.3 percent of the 1,538,813 total arrests for drug abuse violations were for marijuana -- a total of 697,082.

Of those, 613,986 people were arrested for marijuana possession alone.

This is a slight decrease from 2000, when a total of 734,497 Americans were arrested for marijuana offenses, of which 646,042 were for possession alone

. Source: Uniform Crime Reports, Federal Bureau of Investigation

People Incarcerated for Drug Law Offenses this Year

Since December 31, 1995, the U.S. prison population has grown an average of 43,266 inmates per year. About 25 per cent are sentenced for drug law violations.

Source: U.S. Dept. of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics

Well, my friend, with your Islamofacist-like suggestion/solution, we would be executing hundreds of thousands--if not millions--of our fellow citizens a year.

Good luck!!

[texasmountainman]

My problem is nothing compared with what you went through. I hope and pray things are getting better for you.

[robertpaulsen]

"We now imprison more people than ANY other country IN THE WORLD and at least half, are for drug related offenses, and of those, most are for mere possession."

20% are there for drug related offenses (and 75% of those are black or Hispanic), and almost all of those are for trafficking or drug dealing. Very few are there for possession, and I would guess those cases were plea-bargained down from dealing.

[SittinYonder]

Well, my friend, with your Islamofacist-like suggestion/solution, we would be executing hundreds of thousands--if not millions--of our fellow citizens a year.

So you support spending $19 billion in one year on the WOD? You support arrested more than 1.6 million people? You support the costs in building and housing 43,000 new inmates each year?

Call me an Islamofascist if you want, but my point remains: We are not doing anything in the WOD other than growing the government and eroding personal liberties and destroying private property rights.

The current state of affairs is unacceptable to me.

IF we are committed to winning the war on drugs, then we must find a better way to fight it. Executing people for possession is the only solution I see to winning the War on Drugs.

If you've got a better way, maybe you could suggest that instead of calling me names.

[Caipirabob]

Fine, we lost that one, now dismantle the program and give us a friggin' tax cut, losers!

[SittinYonder]

We keeping fighting the good fight and figure out how to fight it better

I would argue that we are not fighting the good fight ... we are growing the government both in terms of size, cost and authority. And we are no winning. There must be another solution.

[tacticalogic]

Executing people for possession is the only solution I see to winning the War on Drugs.

And if you're not willing to execute them for it, then there is no practical solution.

[Cruising Speed]

Execute a few of those cute, upper-class college girls for possession and pretty soon the WOD is won.

The most widely abused drug in America is alcohol so why don't you advocate for execution for anyone caught drunk?

[gandalftb]

Exactly, any society that can kill its own people for getting high too much, is a police state. The executive and legislative fascist state required to do so would be the end of our democracy.

It's just a nutty idea that distracts away from real and achievable solutions.

[Lazamataz]

Fortunately, in the US, we have a drug czar, not a drugs tsar.

If we just had a drugues ztxtcztzarr, then we'd finally win.

[Ken H]

Executing people for possession is the only solution I see to winning the War on Drugs. If you've got a better way, maybe you could suggest that instead of calling me names.

International Narcotics Control Strategy Report -2003

Iran has executed more than 10,000 narcotics traffickers in the last decade; executions continue, but the UNODC reports that many in the Iranian judiciary are questioning the deterrent effect of executions.

The Iranian Government (GOI) estimates that about two percent of Iran's 67.7 million citizens (that is, about 1,354,000 people) are regular drug abusers (drug-dependent addicts), but many respected observers of drug abuse worldwide view this estimate as low. ~snip~ The GOI seems particularly concerned over the sharp increase in intravenous drug abuse.

-- http://www.parstimes.com/news/archive/2004/state/narcotics_report_2003.html

______________________________________

1. If you compare the scope of heroin addiction in Iran and Singapore to the scope of the problem in the Netherlands, which do you think has a better handle on the heroin problem?

2. What is your preferred approach between the alternatives you've presented?

[The_Reader_David]

Why do you think sacrificing everyone's liberty is a price worth paying to stop some among us from ruining their own lives? Yes I know, a ruined life ruins some lives around it. A police state ruins everyone's life.

[CGTRWK]

Either we ramp it up and stomp out drug use or we'll have to admit the same kind of defeat this drug tsar in Scotland is admitting.

We already have the same defeat as Scotland. The only difference is we won't admit it. Refusing to acknowledge reality for ideological reasons is one of man's greatest weaknesses.

[Wolfie]

Remember, ya can't arrest and account for 20 million illegals, but rounding up 50 million or so drug-using Americans shouldn't be too much of a problem.

[gandalftb]

My wife's problems ended, badly. She was a registered nurse, educated, a very quality person. Every part of our social welfare and law enforcement system failed for my family.

The saddest part is that I feel the world has learned so little about the consequences of drug abuse that has happened to so many families.

SittinYonder and others talk about killing users and dealers. Well are they ready to raise their kids by themselves? Shall we kill the medical doctors who over prescribe, also? They and all the bartenders and drug dealers. Again, to those "tough talkers": it's easy to call 'em from the bench..........