Tsar admits: we've lost the war on drugs

The Scotsman ^ | Sun 18 Jun 2006 | MARCELLO MEGA AND KATE FOSTER

[fieldmarshaldj]

And I similarly wouldn't hesitate in emptying a round into the "outraged" parents of such a criminal progeny if they tried taking revenge for their proper punishment. Peddle death, and you take your licks, it's that simple. Same goes if my kid was guilty of it, they're on their own.

[fieldmarshaldj]

"Who actually believes the drug war isn't lost?"

Me... nor do I believe the cultural war and the war on terror are lost, all those other nasty little things that have to be waged to keep civilization civilized. If you don't want to fight for civilization, you can shut up and get out of the way for those that will. It's that simple.

[highball]

No offense, friend, but what you're describing isn't "Civilization".

We shouldn't be taking our lessons on civilization from Iran. When you start to agree with them on matters of public policy, it's time to seriously question your perspective.

[fieldmarshaldj]

We'll have to disagree on that point. I'm just glad my grandfather, a WW1 veteran and native-born Scot, didn't live long enough to see the cultural breakdown of his homeland.

[democrats_nightmare]

Are you willing to volunteer your services as executioner? Will you walk up a put a bullet in the first 14 year old kid we catch with a joint in his pocket?

Your a bit inaccurate on your post... In Singapore, Malaysia and Indonesia its death to all people that traffic drugs across their borders. There is a big difference between being a drug trafficker and a drug addict. Not saying that I am for this type of regime but this is what the deal is over there.

[highball]

You're right, we'll have to agree to disagree.

I'll never agree with the notion that we can learn anything about "civilization" from Iran.

[Nate505]

And I similarly wouldn't hesitate in emptying a round into the "outraged" parents of such a criminal progeny if they tried taking revenge for their proper punishment. Peddle death, and you take your licks, it's that simple. Same goes if my kid was guilty of it, they're on their own.

The only one talking about peddling death is you. Apparently, you've given yourself the right to be the judge, jury, and executioner over something that is hardly a felony in most states. Frankly, I worry more about people like you in society than someone who gives another person coke.

[Nate505]

If you don't believe it is lost, you are way more delusional than I thought you were a response ago. What is your criteria for victory?

[tacticalogic]

Your a bit inaccurate on your post... In Singapore, Malaysia and Indonesia its death to all people that traffic drugs across their borders. There is a big difference between being a drug trafficker and a drug addict. Not saying that I am for this type of regime but this is what the deal is over there.

The post was in response to a statement that the only way to win the WoD would be to impose the death penalty for posession. Period. No distinction was made between posession for use and posession for sale, by either myself or the person who made the original post.

[UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide]

I have long said that the only way we will win the war on drugs is if we impose the death penalty for possession. Others have suggested it is unreasonable and harsh, and maybe it is, but you can't win a war without piling up some bodies.

IF that were to happen in this country then I would be in favor of piling up some bodies of law enforcement. Tyranny is what the 2nd Amendment is for. For every crazy idea there is an equal and opposite crazy idea. Roll that and smoke it.

[tacticalogic]

Any logical conslusions to be drawn from the combination of that post and your tag line?

[LibertarianInExile]

This is a VERY qualified sentence. I don't think it goes as far as the headline makes it out:

"For young people who have already said 'yes', who live in families and communities where everybody says 'yes', we have to recognise that the battle is long lost."

[Ken H]

nor do I believe the cultural war and the war on terror are lost, all those other nasty little things that have to be waged to keep civilization civilized.

We had no federal WOD prior to 1900, and our country seemed to be doing quite well. The last UN estimate I saw put the illegal drug trade at around $320 billion/year worldwide. That's somewhere between 10% and 20% of the size of the world oil market (total barrels consumed x price/barrel)-- and it goes right into the pockets of terrorists and organized criminals.

What's your plan for denying the bad guys their funding? (before you answer, please look at posts #64 and #76 on this thread for heroin addiction rates in Singapore, Iran, and the Netherlands.

[Energy Alley]

I give the last word to IBM

http://www-1.ibm.com/services/uk/bcs/html/other/media/mpg/ibm_catapult_combo_rev_60_low.mpg

[mugs99]

The unquestioning support of the WOD is eerily similar to the behavior we see in religious cults

That's because the WOD is a religious crusade. Drug addicts in America are being scapegoated exactly the same as Jews were in Germany.
.

[mugs99]

Same goes if my kid was guilty of it, they're on their own.

Interesting...You'd kill your own daughter if she gave drugs to another?
.

[robertpaulsen]

"The reference you linked to does not say that."

Sure it does. It says that there's around 450,000 in prison on drug offenses out of 2,019,234 -- that's 22%.

Your 70-80% drug-related offenses include those who possessed drugs or were high on drugs when they committed the crime they were charged with. They'd be arrested even if drugs were legal, so I don't see how we can count them.

"The fact is, more than 70% of prisoners are locked up for non-violent crimes, most for drug crimes or low level property crimes."

Well, if 22% are drug crimes, then I guess the other 48% are for property crimes. Your point?

"Drugs aren't creating criminals...You are!"

People make choices. Criminals made the wrong choice. I don't see how that's my fault.

[mugs99]

(2) To restore the public¹s respect for law enforcement, which has been greatly diminished by its involvement in imposing drug prohibition.

Step 2 is the only way to lower crime and violence in our society.
.

[robertpaulsen]

"What other business accepts a 10% interdiciton 'success' rate as a success?"

Who uses interdiction rate as a measure of success? What if we tripled our interdiction rate yet drug use doubled. Would you call the program a success?

[Nate505]

Who uses interdiction rate as a measure of success? What if we tripled our interdiction rate yet drug use doubled. Would you call the program a success?

No. But when you are spending billions of dollars on interdiction, shouldn't there be some sort of way to measure success?