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11,000-Year-Old Grain Shakes Up Beliefs On Beginnings Of Agriculture
Jerusalem Post ^ | 6-18-2006 | Judy Siegel-Itzkovich

Posted on 06/19/2006 1:04:07 PM PDT by blam

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1 posted on 06/19/2006 1:04:09 PM PDT by blam
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To: SunkenCiv

GGG Ping


2 posted on 06/19/2006 1:05:10 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam

That would also push back the discovery of beer.


3 posted on 06/19/2006 1:05:28 PM PDT by SamAdams_Lite
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To: blam

They've discovered the container of Quaker Oats cereal I've had in my cupboard all this time.


4 posted on 06/19/2006 1:06:34 PM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist
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To: SamAdams_Lite
That would also push back the discovery of beer.

When I saw the word grain I immediately thought..."Mmmm, beer"

5 posted on 06/19/2006 1:07:16 PM PDT by frogjerk (LIBERALISM: The perpetual insulting of common sense.)
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To: SamAdams_Lite

"That would also push back the discovery of beer."

First thing I thought too.


6 posted on 06/19/2006 1:08:17 PM PDT by toddlintown
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To: SamAdams_Lite
That would also push back the discovery of beer.

The research, performed by Drs. Ehud Weiss

Coincidence?...I think not!

7 posted on 06/19/2006 1:08:33 PM PDT by frogjerk (LIBERALISM: The perpetual insulting of common sense.)
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To: blam

I wonder if they'll try and germinate them?.............


8 posted on 06/19/2006 1:08:58 PM PDT by Red Badger (Thread hi-jacking in progress. Everybody stay in your seats and no one will get hurt!...............)
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To: Red Badger

The have to try to germinate them. This is a good find.


9 posted on 06/19/2006 1:11:36 PM PDT by Lady Jag (You can complain because roses have thorns, or you can rejoice because thorns have roses.)
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To: SamAdams_Lite

How does one "discover" beer? Wine I can see. Grape juice, sits in storage till it ferments and viola, you've got wine. Beer, on the other hand, requires a scientific approach to brewing ingredients, cooking, fermenting, etc. One does not accidentally come upon beer, it must be planned and researched.........


10 posted on 06/19/2006 1:12:01 PM PDT by Red Badger (Thread hi-jacking in progress. Everybody stay in your seats and no one will get hurt!...............)
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To: Lady Jag

I've heard that wheat grains from Egyptian tombs will germinate after 5,000 or so years. This would double that!........


11 posted on 06/19/2006 1:13:23 PM PDT by Red Badger (Thread hi-jacking in progress. Everybody stay in your seats and no one will get hurt!...............)
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To: Red Badger

Consider that a common way to prepare whole grains for cooking is to soak them for at least a day. Also consider that sprouting is a way to enhance the nutrition of grains.


12 posted on 06/19/2006 1:13:55 PM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (Your FRiendly FReeper Patent Attorney)
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To: Red Badger

I didn't think they had violas that long ago..


13 posted on 06/19/2006 1:14:05 PM PDT by rahbert
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To: SamAdams_Lite
"That would also push back the discovery of beer."

Ah, yes---beer---"Proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." Benjamin Franklin

14 posted on 06/19/2006 1:15:05 PM PDT by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel-NRA)
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To: SamAdams_Lite; toddlintown; frogjerk
That would also push back the discovery of beer.

Indicates that beer predates wine. Take that frogs!

15 posted on 06/19/2006 1:15:18 PM PDT by ncountylee (Dead terrorists smell like victory)
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To: Red Badger

"How does one "discover" beer? Wine I can see. Grape juice, sits in storage till it ferments and viola, you've got wine. Beer, on the other hand, requires a scientific approach to brewing ingredients, cooking, fermenting, etc. One does not accidentally come upon beer, it must be planned and researched........."

I always thought making wine and mead was much more complicated. I've made beer for years but when I read a book on wine making I thought it was pretty fussy.


16 posted on 06/19/2006 1:15:43 PM PDT by dljordan
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To: frogjerk
Thanks to weiss,

I have a vice.

And one I love so dear.

It's really nice

To have a vice.

And all thanks to weissen beer...........

17 posted on 06/19/2006 1:17:00 PM PDT by Red Badger (Thread hi-jacking in progress. Everybody stay in your seats and no one will get hurt!...............)
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To: rahbert

They had to have something to play "How Dry I Am" on...........


18 posted on 06/19/2006 1:18:35 PM PDT by Red Badger (Thread hi-jacking in progress. Everybody stay in your seats and no one will get hurt!...............)
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To: Beelzebubba

But then someone would have to have let them sit for a long time in order to ferment, and add yeast to the mix. Maybe it was an offshoot of breadmaking. Someone smelled the alcohol coming from the yeast in the bread and said, "Hmmmm, I wonder if..........."


19 posted on 06/19/2006 1:21:09 PM PDT by Red Badger (Thread hi-jacking in progress. Everybody stay in your seats and no one will get hurt!...............)
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To: Wonder Warthog
Ah, yes---beer---"Proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." Benjamin Franklin

Saint Brigid

"I would like the angels of Heaven to be among us. I would like an abundance of peace. I would like full vessels of charity. I would like rich treasures of mercy. I would like cheerfulness to preside over all. I would like Jesus to be present. I would like the three Marys of illustrious renown to be with us. I would like the friends of Heaven to be gathered around us from all parts. I would like myself to be a rent payer to the Lord; that I should suffer distress, that he would bestow a good blessing upon me. I would like a great lake of beer for the King of Kings. I would like to be watching Heaven's family drinking it through all eternity."

From http://www.catholic-forum.com/Saints/saintb03.htm

She worked in a leper colony which found itself without beer, "For when the lepers she nursed implored her for beer, and there was none to be had, she changed the water, which was used for the bath, into an excellent beer, by the sheer strength of her blessing and dealt it out to the thirsty in plenty." Brigid is said to have changed her dirty bathwater into beer so that visiting clerics would have something to drink. Obviously this trait would endear her to many a beer lover. She also is reputed to have supplied beer out of one barrel to eighteen churches, which sufficed from Maundy Thursday to the end of paschal time.

From http://www.beerhistory.com/library/holdings/patron_saints.shtml

20 posted on 06/19/2006 1:29:51 PM PDT by frogjerk (LIBERALISM: The perpetual insulting of common sense.)
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To: Red Badger

Yeast is not required for bread baking. Think flat bread.


21 posted on 06/19/2006 1:34:24 PM PDT by magslinger (Watch out for Christians and their IPD's (Improvised Potluck Dinners)!)
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To: ncountylee
A missionary to the Germans in the areas near the Lake of Zurich, St. Columbanus (b. 612) came upon an assembly of pagans making ready a sacrifice with a large tub filled with beer in their midst. He asked them what they intended to do with it and they answered that it was an offer to their god Wodan. St. Columbanus blew upon it (possibly with a beer breath), and immediately the vessel burst into splinters with a great noise and all the beer was spilled. The barbarians were surprised, and said he had a strong breath. He then explained to the assembled that they were wasting good ale and his God loved ale, but only when drunk in his name. He exhorted them to forsake their superstitions and return to the faith. Many were converted and baptized; others, who had been formerly baptized, and had apostatized, returned to the obedience of the gospel. He is known for saying "It is my design to die in the brew-house; let ale be placed to my mouth when I am expiring so that when the choir of angels come they may say: 'Be God propitious to this drinker.'"
22 posted on 06/19/2006 1:34:26 PM PDT by frogjerk (LIBERALISM: The perpetual insulting of common sense.)
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To: Red Badger
"I've heard that wheat grains from Egyptian tombs will germinate after 5,000 or so years. This would double that!........"

I think there's an urban myth about wheat seeds being grown from those found in King Tutts tomb.

2,000 Year Old Palm Seed Germinates

"Israeli scientists say they've succeeded in growing a sapling from what's believed to be the oldest seed ever germinated – a date palm seed 2,000 years old."

"One of the scientists leading the project said she hopes the ancient DNA from the seed will reveal medicinal secrets that have disappeared from the modern plant."

23 posted on 06/19/2006 1:36:51 PM PDT by blam
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To: frogjerk

Ah, a saint with her priorities straight.


24 posted on 06/19/2006 1:38:29 PM PDT by Publius
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To: Red Badger; magslinger
You don't need to add yeast to wort to make beer. It can happen on it's own.

From http://beeradvocate.com/beer/101/yeast.php

Spontaneous Fermentation

Beer that is exposed to the surrounding open air to allow natural/wild yeast and bacteria to literally infect the beer, are spontaneous fermented beers. One of the typical yeasts is the Brettanomyces Lambicus strain. Beers produced in this fashion are sour, non-filtered and inspired by the traditional lambics of the Zenne-region. This brewing method has been practised for decades in the West Flanders region of Belgium.

25 posted on 06/19/2006 1:38:29 PM PDT by frogjerk (LIBERALISM: The perpetual insulting of common sense.)
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To: frogjerk

Your post encouraged me to pop a cool one (Carlsberg). Ahhhh!


26 posted on 06/19/2006 1:38:43 PM PDT by ncountylee (Dead terrorists smell like victory)
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To: blam

Why do they believe it's 11,000 years old? This goes against the grain.


27 posted on 06/19/2006 1:39:01 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: Publius

see post #22


28 posted on 06/19/2006 1:39:30 PM PDT by frogjerk (LIBERALISM: The perpetual insulting of common sense.)
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To: rahbert

"I didn't think they had violas that long ago.."

Being a southerner, I was wondering who the heck this Viola woman was ... the original woman in "wine, women and song," I guess.


29 posted on 06/19/2006 1:40:06 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: Red Badger

One does not accidentally come upon beer, it must be planned and researched.........

And Moses came down from the mountain with a frosty mud and said "Let there be beer". The people rejoiced.


30 posted on 06/19/2006 1:40:44 PM PDT by wolfcreek
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To: Red Badger

Wild yeast is all over the place and airborne. There are certain types of Belgian beers that are fermented with wild yeast in open containers.


31 posted on 06/19/2006 1:40:52 PM PDT by nitzy (Every man needs a credo)
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To: ncountylee; rightinthemiddle
Grain Belt beer ping

32 posted on 06/19/2006 1:41:05 PM PDT by evets (beer)
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To: magslinger

But somewhere along the line someone did use yeast to make bread, and alcohol would have been smelled in the process. The Egyptians were making beer thousands of years befor Christ. Yeasts were known to exhibit the fermentation processes. Some smart gut, possibly and Egyptian, must have put two and two together and came up with BEER! Thus the phrase, "Walk like an Egyptian!"..........


33 posted on 06/19/2006 1:42:19 PM PDT by Red Badger (Thread hi-jacking in progress. Everybody stay in your seats and no one will get hurt!...............)
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To: wolfcreek

Well he was gone for forty days. Just long enough............


34 posted on 06/19/2006 1:43:04 PM PDT by Red Badger (Thread hi-jacking in progress. Everybody stay in your seats and no one will get hurt!...............)
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To: SamAdams_Lite

You joke, but of course.


35 posted on 06/19/2006 1:44:20 PM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: wolfcreek
From http://www.beerhistory.com/library/holdings/patron_saints.shtml

"Don't drink the water, drink beer" warned Saint Arnold of Metz (b. 580 AD, d. 640), concerned about the dangers of drinking impure water. He believed that the polluted water caused illness, while the boiled and processed water used for beer was a safer alternative. According to legend he ended a plague when he submerged his crucifix into a brew kettle and persuaded people to drink only beer from that "blessed" kettle. He is reported to have said "From man's sweat and God's love, beer came into the world".

AMEN!

36 posted on 06/19/2006 1:45:04 PM PDT by frogjerk (LIBERALISM: The perpetual insulting of common sense.)
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To: blam

This thread has a way of making me thirsty.


37 posted on 06/19/2006 1:45:18 PM PDT by Fester Chugabrew
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To: frogjerk

Weizenbier. Not the thin American stuff.


38 posted on 06/19/2006 1:45:51 PM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: RobbyS

39 posted on 06/19/2006 1:47:05 PM PDT by frogjerk (LIBERALISM: The perpetual insulting of common sense.)
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To: evets

Grain Belt beer looks inviting. We have a specialty beer store that I will check to see if I can get it in California.


40 posted on 06/19/2006 1:47:47 PM PDT by ncountylee (Dead terrorists smell like victory)
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To: evets

That looks like a can of brake fluid.


41 posted on 06/19/2006 1:49:37 PM PDT by rahbert
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To: magslinger
Yeast is not required for bread baking. Think flat bread

Also, you don't need to "add" yeast - yeast floats around in the air as a naturally occuring substance. Leave some soaked grains around long enough and yeast will find it and grow on it. I would imagine that's where beer got it's start.

42 posted on 06/19/2006 1:51:09 PM PDT by Tokra (I think I'll retire to Bedlam.)
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To: Red Badger
If the seeds look good, we'll get a clue what the odds are from this.

A week or two ago, I looked up from cooking when someone on TV news said there was pot growing on the front lawn of a state house or town hall . . . looked urban but Ididn't catch where. Apparently, they'd dug the lawn up to redo it and rains came before they got any further. When the sun came out, there were pot seedlings all over the place!

They're from WWII's Hemp for the cause, or whatever it was called. From 60 years ago, my brief peek looked like damn good germination rate.

43 posted on 06/19/2006 1:52:08 PM PDT by Lady Jag (You can complain because roses have thorns, or you can rejoice because thorns have roses.)
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To: RobbyS

44 posted on 06/19/2006 1:56:42 PM PDT by frogjerk (LIBERALISM: The perpetual insulting of common sense.)
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To: dljordan
Birds and bears get drunk on berries and fruit fermenting right on the vine. Wine happens.
45 posted on 06/19/2006 2:00:17 PM PDT by VadeRetro (Faster than a speeding building; able to leap tall bullets at a single bound!)
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To: Lady Jag
They're from WWII's Hemp for the cause, or whatever it was called. From 60 years ago

Don't count on it. Those unfortunate enough to get the kind with seeds love to spread them on police station/city hall lawns and in potted plants inside the station. Or so I'm told...

46 posted on 06/19/2006 2:01:46 PM PDT by Dinsdale
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To: Red Badger
I saw a show on this subject, and raised bread was made by someone too lazy to get fresh water, but had some nice beer on hand...

Which makes sense, yeast is more likely to infect a wort than dough.

47 posted on 06/19/2006 2:01:50 PM PDT by magslinger (Watch out for Christians and their IPD's (Improvised Potluck Dinners)!)
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To: blam

Probaly, just some old acid heads letting their grain go moldy.


48 posted on 06/19/2006 2:03:53 PM PDT by razorback-bert (Kooks For Kinky)
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To: Dinsdale

Johnny Pot Seed strikes again! LOL!

I'm just saying what the people who are there said.


49 posted on 06/19/2006 2:18:26 PM PDT by Lady Jag (You can complain because roses have thorns, or you can rejoice because thorns have roses.)
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To: blam

Someone failed to sow their wild oats.


50 posted on 06/19/2006 2:19:49 PM PDT by TASMANIANRED (The Internet is the samizdat of liberty..)
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