Posted on 06/22/2006 10:46:58 AM PDT by UnklGene
"I have no idea what the legal limits are, but courts have regularly sided with administrators who have prevented the wearing of certain colors, of t-shirts with certain messages on them, and of the handing out of leaflets or certain kinds of information."
And you would classify this girl's faith based statements in the same category as wearing gang colors or handing out leaflets that advocate violence? Are you okay with any limit that courts would put on the freedoms of students?
"If this valedictorian was not comfortable giving her talk without the references to Jesus in it, she simply should have declined to speak at all, rather than say she would give the edited speech, then not give it."
Perhaps the blatant injustice of having her free speech rights violated by those in authority at the school was a bit too much for her to take. If so, I applaud her convictions.
Ooops. Forgot. She lied. Once she gave her word, she should have just shut up and let anyone trample on her rights. The nerve of that kid!
The problem here is with a government school which disallows non threatening speech by a person they selected to give a speech.
My daughter gave the keynote at her HS graduation BECAUSE of the speech she wrote, not in spite of it.
"I agree with you on one thing, if you go to a Godless school, you should expect that they won't allow you to speak about God."
Exactly what is a Godless school? We say the pledge of allegience don't we? I person can't express their faith in a public school now. Are you all out of your friggin' minds?
Does this mean they can't do a book report on a religous figure? Does this mean they can't reference any holy person in any way shape or form? Last time I checked we lived in a FREE country.
By the tradition of our founders she had every right to give praise or thanks in a public ceremony. One of the first men to include doing such in one of the first acts of this nations government function? George Washington as he would not take the oath of office until his hand was placed on the Bible. Note Placing the elected POTUS hand on the Bible is not a requirement for taking the oath of office. Taking the oath however is. Washington, Henry, and even the most secular among them Jefferson, all agreed this was a right.
Liberal apologist who see governments authority over the citizens being brought to question seem to have the most issues with such acts as this. To some the government is their god. None dare better speak against it or question it's authority in their eyes. Our biggest mistake in education and other things was letting the government become the provider of the service to start with.
This young lady may see the coming day in this nation where she is told to renounce her faith. I have a feeling she would be among those who would not bow to such tyranny. Others like babbling idiots would praise the government for settling the argument once and for all.
Of course some think it rude for a former Chinese doctor to condemn a tyrant butcher communist dictator as well. How ironic some say she had no right to do such. Communist Dictator would agree very much with them.
The particular leaflets in question were not advocating violence; they were advocating membership in a Wiccan group.
Perhaps the blatant injustice of having her free speech rights violated by those in authority at the school was a bit too much for her to take.
Minor children do not have "free speech rights." As pointed out above, schools regularly limit the "free expression" of students. They're students, they're children. Children are subject to parents and school administrators.
You, like others on this forum, seem not to get the difference between adults, who have free speech rights, and children, who do not.
A government school. Of course God resides everywhere so it's really just a description of the rules of most of them.
We say the pledge of allegience don't we?
They are working on getting rid of that too. At least the part about God. But they are conflicted because they love the idea of pledging allegiance to the government.
I person can't express their faith in a public school now.
Correct, that's the way it's been going.
Are you all out of your friggin' minds?
Me? Not hardly. I wouldn't send my child to one of those hell holes for any reason.
Baloney. The Supreme Court settled that last summer. Your straw man won't work.
"The particular leaflets in question were not advocating violence; they were advocating membership in a Wiccan group."
Totally beside the point and nonresponsive to the questions that I raise. Do you consider the ability to limit the free speech of students by school administrators to be absolute?
"Minor children do not have "free speech rights." As pointed out above, schools regularly limit the "free expression" of students. They're students, they're children. Children are subject to parents and school administrators."
And this girl is a minor? She's a graduating senior and probably 18. So, it's really sounding like, in your opinion, a school administrator's right to silence anything a student wants to say is absolute and unchallengable. That's pretty frightening, but it would prepare them for life in the kind of world such thinking would lead us to. "Shut up, say what I tell you to, and don't think for yourself."
I agree but I doubt that will ever happen.
I understand what is right for a child and what is not. Teacher Secular can get up in Biology and say Billy you come from apes. Billy can not say In the Beginning....Children learn by our example. If parents tolerates a government of tyranny that silences so much as the very mention of our Creator how much more so will the children who will be the next generation of leaders? If you want them to do right it starts early on.
Since children don't have free speech rights, I reject the premise of your question.
However, school administrators act "in loco parentis," and courts have recognized that they enjoy the same ability to limit children when they are at school that you do when they are at home.
She's a graduating senior and probably 18.
She is still under the jurisdiction of the school. When she gets her diploma, she is free to do and say whatever she wants.
That's pretty frightening, but it would prepare them for life in the kind of world such thinking would lead us to. "Shut up, say what I tell you to, and don't think for yourself."
If she enters the world of the military, she will find that she had more "rights" when she was a student. And, depending on where she chooses to work, she may find that some companies will limit her right to speak about certain things or to proselytize on company property.
Even as an adult, one may exercise one's right to free speech, but there may be consequences if one does.
"Me? Not hardly. I wouldn't send my child to one of those hell holes for any reason."
Not all of us are in a position to send our kids to a private school.
"thats the way its been going" Not if I can help it.
And that is what is needed. Enough of the lawyers and ACLU ruling over the day-to-day lives of children. Nothing will happen until the taxpayers (parents) get outraged, involved, and demand some common sense.
And some people think homeschooling is a bad idea. Unreal.
She may be under the jurisdiction of the school, but after her 18th birthday, she enjoys every right enumerated in the constitution as you or I do. At age 18, she has the unalienable right to free speech regardless of where she is or what jurisdiction she's under.
That said, their may be consequences to continuing to speak. A free individual accepts them.
their-there
Every adult has the right to speak, but they do not enjoy the right to be heard.
Ignoring free speech is one thing. Outright censorship (which is what we have here) is another.
Agreed. And I think this young woman is being heard loud and clear. Unintended consequences for the district, perhaps?
Except that schools have the right to censor what students say at graduation ceremonies.
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