Posted on 06/23/2006 1:43:12 PM PDT by NYer
Ping to Dr Lejuene's words.
She was in a book group discussing a novel in which the main character aborted her first child. A young gal in the group disputed this terminlogy: she said she had had an early abortion, and it was no big deal: the embryo wasn't human.
Old lady: "Oh. I'm so sorry, dear. (Pause.) If you don't mind telling us: just what was the father?
Whatever the physical entity that is the baby is, he or she first was the embryo immediately after the sperm penetrated the oocyte. To stop the life processes of the prior form most definitely stops the life of the latter. There is continuity in the life of all living creatures from conception to death, with predictable and normal stages of development that is measurable and repeatable, and so it is verifiable as fact of embryology. As I'm fond of saying, "It doesn't matter if you destroy the egg of a bird on the endangered species list. Even if it's an embryo or a fetus, you have broken the Endangered Species Act. You are liable under the law."
All the atrocities of history have been the result of one group of humans using their power to redefine some humans as less than human enough to deserve protection from killing. Haman and Hitler did it with the Jews. Virtually every society has done it with their slaves at some point in history. This is no different, except that in the case of abortion on demand in the US, we've convinced the mothers of the children that they can decide whether their child becomes a person before birth. However, see my post #34: it's unlikely that Plan B is an abortifacient. Again, a verifiable fact, supported by embryology.
You are the father? Well, then my analogy is wrong. It should be: "just because you throw some one the keys and then watch them drive the car...."
< / feminism>
Marvin's right, your embryology is very bad. Wanting it with great emotion to be so won't make it so.
BTW, the blastula is actually the name of the stage at day 3 to 8, not day 1. The cells containing the chromosomes are the desired products of the embryos destroyed for their stem cells, around day 5.
The single-cell embryo is organised with the complete bodily functions appropriate for that stage of development, within yhat one cell.
Again, you are claiming moral high ground because of the fact of fatherhood, which is irrelevant to the issue (excuse the pun). However (with a wink to Ann Coulter):
Your insistance on claiming this moral ground is offensive to me as a mother who actually gestated 2 pregnancies.
There's good in the opportunity for education in the discussion of Plan B.
However, we really do need to spread the word that Plan B is not an abortifacient and focus these discussions on the liberty issue of right of conscience and property, in addition to the right to life teaching. In order to promote interventional abortion at later stages of life, the "pro-choice" side is using the emotional arguments about "unprotected sex" to make slaves of whole groups of people.
"Koreans count the age of their young from conception rather than from birth. Smart people they."
And they eat dogs, and fermented cabbage. Brilliant indeed. Do you really want your kid to get a drivers' license the minute he turns FIFTEEN? ;)
Theologians haven't been able to resolve for centuries when the soul enters the picture. Thanks for clearing it up for us so neatly on a message board!
For centuries those theologians did not have access to the information we now have regarding the beginning of life at conception. It is now quite clear that the "product of conception", as the pro-abortionists like to call it, is actually a unique human entity from conception onward. If the embryonic human is a distinct individual with it's own unique genetic code unlike any other, which we now know it definitely is, then it is quite logical to postulate that that individual has been endowed with a soul by his or her creator and is just as much a unique, individual human being as you or me.
3000 years ago David wrote under divine inspiration that God knew and saw him before he was conceived in his mother's womb. That alone should be enough to convince any real Christian theologian as to when the "product of conception" becomes a living soul. Obviously that living soul is already a fully created human being in God's eyes at the moment it is conceived, and it's unique, individual identity was known to him even before that conception occurred.
That may not matter to you, but it tells me that whenever an embryonic human is aborted an innocent human life has been deliberately extinguished without just cause, which is a good definition of 1st degree premeditated murder in my book.
We've seen on this very thread that one can be against abortion yet not have consensus on this pill. Many, including myself, do not share your sense of High Drama about this drug, which is just a higher dosage of regular pills.
This either prevents or interrupts an hours-old pregnancy. A lot of us find that preferable to resorting to surgical abortion several weeks later. You go ahead and be pure in your standards, and the rest of us will be practical and pragmatic.
I never said an embryo is not a human being, I said an embryo is not a baby. However I think a human being is probably more than 2 cells.
Never said it wasn't human life. I said it wasn't a baby.
Never said it wasn't growing. I said it wasn't a baby.
Never said it didn't have 46 chromosones....
I think it is relevant and I have a bunch of of ultr-sounds on the door of the fridge.
Life begins at conception-personhood is debateable. Embryos aren't people- Is that so dificult a concept to grasp?
Kill the embryo - no baby. Is that such a hard concept to grasp?
You must want to be able to kill some embryos very, very badly. But wanting it does not make it so.
You must want to be able to kill some embryos very, very badly. But wanting it does not make it so.
What an imagination you have!
Look at the nasty poster above who spits insult at the very idea of recognizing the personhood of embryo aged human beings, and note the bitterness dripping from the condescension over the soul nature of the human at earliest age ... there is an overriding agenda pushing such hateful bitterness. Don't be like that bitter soul. An embryo is not a baby, but 'baby' is but one age in a lifetime and the embryo age came before the baby age in a lifetime which begins at conception whether in a petri dish or a fallopian tube.
Embryos are in fact people as shown by the above long post #60 I dug out just for you. 'People' is a term used to particularize one species from the myriad of animal species on planet Earth. 'Person' is a singular from of that species ID.
Science has proven that 'person' is appropriately applied as soon as conception has occurred because even at the zygote age, there is a member ORGANISM in the species of human beings. That single celled human actually has more knowledge of 'being human' than the successive ages will possess in that ORGANISM's lifetime. And the first organ for survival that this knowledgeable ORGANISM makes is the placental encapsulation (which includes the forming of the amniotic sac, all construction done by the new human organism), in order to continue living in a 'water world' of the uterus [without that differentiation of cells, the new being could not implant in the uterine lining].
That first organ for survival your daughter made will actually be cast off when born into the air world. If possible, find a way to save the cord blood from that organ because it contains stem cells made by your daughter which are efficacious for her treatment should a myriad of possible diseases or injuries occur. Those stem cells are also efficacious in treating the diseases of others, for the truth is those stem cells are actually 'of embryonic origin'!
To cancel that proven human ID is to dehumanize for utilitarian reasons. Don't be such an one, please.
What thread are you reading? The nasty posters on this thread are people like you who condescend others. You presume to know what's in the hearts and minds of other regarding the sanctity of life. Truly sickening.
And thank you for finally conceding my initial argument: Embryos aren't babies or people but are the beginnings of what hopefully develops into a kind, rational, mature human being- unlike most of you.
BTTT
Thanks for the ping!
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