Posted on 06/30/2006 2:34:55 PM PDT by Cagey
Key NASA officials who oversee the agency said they don't believe the shuttle is safe for launch, according to a Local 6 News report.
E-mails sent to NASA's administrator from the agency's inspector general's office obtained by the Orlando Sentinel said they didn't believe shuttle Discovery should launch without more work to prevent foam insulation from breaking off the external fuel tank.
NASA already had a "no go" for flight from the agency's top safety official and chief engineer. However, NASA managers went ahead and gave the "go for launch" for Saturday.
Meanwhile, NASA declined Thursday to release documents from a critical safety meeting where managers debated whether to go forward with the shuttle launch.
Local 6 News partner Florida Today and The Associated Press asked the agency to release records from the Flight Readiness Review meetings under the Freedom of Information Act. The records outline the safety issues raised during the June 16-17 meetings at Kennedy Space Center.
'The question that we have at this point is that last year, NASA was able to release the documents that were used during their flight readiness review -- which is the meeting where the decision is made to go forward with launch," Florida Today's John Kelly said. "This year they have decided in the face of the same request to deny release of the records."
The newspaper immediately appealed the decision to NASA Administrator Mike Griffin. AP is assessing the situation.
Liftoff is scheduled for 3:49 p.m. Saturday.
I'm afraid it's time to put the old horse down.
I agree.
Agreed. However, it sounds like there's a few cowboys at NASA that can't give up that horse.
Nothing is safe, not even rolling our of bed. If NASA throws money at safety then it does need to be put down. If NASA works to minimize hazard and maintain a certain risk level then OK, the demotic masses, the d'masses are too ignorant to understand such niceties.
If the risk is below 10%, by means go ahead.
Space exploration was never supposed to be safe.
Hello??? Major tile displacement last time out. Seems like this is just another spin of the roulette wheel. This is a time where the media in my opinion plays an invaluable role of diseminating the internal discussions. I want to see the probability analysis. If it goes bad and the unmentionabale happens the agency will be shut down for good.
LIFE....AINT...SAFE...
Get over it and LIVE!
prisoner6
Listen to the damned warnings and put this machine to bed.
We should have been starting on the replacement for the Shuttle years ago.
I wish more people would just accept that mounting people onto massive explosive rockets and shooting them into a vacuum is always going to be slightly riskier than, say, riding a motorcycle. If we failed to explore because of risk of death, we'd all still be in AFrica, and take a look around over there and see where that would get you.
Refusing to release the documents on the safety meetings isn't exactly going to inspire a whole lot of confidence.
Which they're certainly entitled to do. If they're right, they deserve a raise and a promotion. If the flight is flawless, however, they deserve to be fired.
I'm afraid you're right. These people are paid to evaluate safety so I believe they should be listened to.
What's wrong with the astronauts? Are they so oblivious to the warnings? Are the warnings from people who know or just think they know? If there is a known risk, seems quite simple to me - NO GO. If all this means there are foolhardy incompetents at the helm, shut the whole thing down and spend the money catching and deporting the illegals. And a big chunk of $ to really protect all our borders.
Florida Today is the local communist rag here on the Space Coast. Extremely liberal in it's editorials and reporting.
The paper wouldn't even exist if it weren't for the space program. Yet, it has made NASA bashing it's life's work, it seems.
In the past, on the day of a launch, the paper would headline some NASA scandal or another.
I wouldn't read it if there were an alternative local paper.
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From what I've read about it, I think you're correct.
It may be some of these astronauts ONE chance to get into space...and they may think the risk is worth taking. Takes a special breed to strap on those solid rocket boosters and allow themselves to be shot into space.
Ha, I guess we should leave that one to algore to figure out. :-)
Sure are a lot of "if's" there!
Scrap it.
The payoff is no longer worth the risk.
W should order it cancelled.
Why the heck doesn't NASA tell EPA to take a hike and go back to the original foam insulation material?
In the worst case fly it unmanned to get the remaining shuttle payload bay loads up to ISS.
Are you implying that there's a problem on the Station? There is a Soyuz return craft docked there...
He did'nt call the media, he quit his job. NASA put out a press release. He refused to discuss details with the media. The media asked for the minutes. NASA refused.
They aren't kids. Some of them are grandparents already. There are worse things than being one of the very, very few who will get to ride and if they make it to space so much the better and if they get back--bonus!
Water found in foam on shuttle Atlantis's fuel tank
21:58 23 June 2006
NewScientist.com news service
Kelly Young
The external fuel tank for the shuttle Atlantis – which would launch on a rescue mission if the next shuttle experienced a major mishap – suffered two problems of its own this week.
While repairing a small nick in the foam on the side of the tank that faces away from the crew-carrying orbiter, technicians noticed small beads of water inside the foam itself.
"It was described as the size of a tear," says spokesperson Tracy Young of NASA's Kennedy Space Center in Florida, US.
NASA does not yet know exactly how much water might be in the foam. But the tank was at the Michoud Assembly Facility near New Orleans, Louisiana, US, when Hurricane Katrina stormed through in August 2005. They suspect water might have gotten into the foam during that storm.
To see how much water is inside, technicians will take infrared scans of the foam insulation, which is in the ribbed midsection of the tank between the hydrogen and oxygen tanks. They will know the results of the scan beginning next week.
Drill and drain
Young says technicians plan to drill a hole in the foam to drain the water. Then they will patch the hole. The fix is not expected to delay the tank, which will be mated to the Atlantis orbiter for a planned launch in August.
Atlantis could also be called upon to fly to the International Space Station to rescue the crew of the shuttle Discovery if it is damaged during launch. Discovery is set to launch as early as 1 July.
NASA is not concerned about water seepage on Discovery's tank because it was stowed safely in Florida when Hurricane Katrina hit.
Atlantis's tank was dented on Monday, when workers accidentally bumped the tank with a work platform. That left a dent in the foam that was about 1 centimetre deep and 10 cm long.
Related Articles
Shuttle is go for launch, but not everyone agrees
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg19025573.400
24 June 2006
NASA sets shuttle launch date despite objections
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn9358
18 June 2006
Discovery set for journey to launch pad
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn9186
18 May 2006
Weblinks
Shuttle, NASA
http://www.nasa.gov/shuttle
Kennedy Space Center, NASA
http://www.ksc.nasa.gov
Michoud Assembly Facility, Lockheed Martin
http://www.lockheedmartin.com/michoud/
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"Only a guess:
Something needs to be in space and it can't wait."
You guessed it correctly!
I suppose you could be correct but if it self destructs again, the people who ignored them show be prosecuted if the cause was something they pointed out.
Is there a LIVE THREAD yet for this launch?
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Not that I know of, this is the first thread I've seen today.
The flight crew is well aware of the risks and is willing to go ahead anyway. Got to commend them for that. As President Reagan said, "the future doesn't belong to the fainthearted. It belongs to the brave."
[If the risk is below 10%, by means go ahead.]
The risk for the space shuttle has always been about 1% per flight for a catastrophic failure.
I don't know of any reason for it to deviate much from that number for this launch.
Well, the countdown is in progress. At Spaceflightnow.com:
FRIDAY, JUNE 30, 2006
The shuttle Discovery's countdown is on track today for a launch attempt Saturday at 3:49 p.m., weather permitting. Forecasters continue to predict a 60 percent chance of unacceptable weather Saturday, Sunday and Monday due to electrically charged anvil clouds within 23 miles of the launch area and a possibility of showers.
Thunderstorms Thursday afternoon delayed work to load Discovery's internal tanks with liquid oxygen and hydrogen for the ship's electricity producing fuel cells. But the launch team had eight hours of built-in hold time Thursday to make up for any delays and by this morning, the countdown was back on track.
Based on the actual load, flight controllers now believe Discovery may have enough power generation capability to permit a one-day mission extension - and a third spacewalk to test wing leading edge repair techniques - even if launch is delayed to July 4. Based on earlier predictions, July 3 appeared to be the cutoff for a mission extension, barring extensive crew conservation procedures. In any case, no decision will be made on a possible mission extension until well into Discovery's mission.
If these men have assessed the risks and think they should speak up, they should. What's more, I think they should be listened to.
People spoke up before the O-Rings failed. People spoke up before the foam incident last time.
If the mission doesn't fail, that's not the point. The point is that the shuttles are old and the risks are becoming too high to launch with relative assurance that the crews will return.
In this instance there is a specific problem that STILL hasn't been addressed. We've lost one crew already to this specific problem. I don't see how they can launch now in good concience without addressing the tile & foam issue.
If this weren't NASA, I'd be shocked that they are going to lauch again without fixing the foam problem, but then this is NASA and their track record is crystal clear.
They just don't seem to give a damn.
Feynman's observations on the reliability of the Space Shuttle:
http://www.fotuva.org/feynman/challenger-appendix.html
Since the failure mode that is being discussed is one that would preclude the shuttle from landing, a new procedure and equipment are in place to try to repair the shuttle, and, while the astronauts are safely on the station, to fly the shuttle back by remote. A new cable is being flown for the first time that will enable a connection from the mid deck to the flight deck and allow the shuttle to be flown home without a crew.
Actually, I think NASA is one of the few exceptions to that rule. Therefore; If they aren't using the safest process for application, it's their own bullheadedness. Unfortunately, that is not an unknown commodity in that agency.
Thanks for the heads up, I didn't know that site existed, got it booked.
You have to understand that the concern is not for problems on launch but on landing. If something happen to the shuttle on launch it will make it to orbit and the crew would wait to another shuttle picked them up. The MSM can't get the facts straight.
There may be many forms of payback associated with successful shuttle flights. Bragging rights, national prestige, dominance of space for future military purposes, and/or scientific and engineering discovery and development.
But if the risk is 10%, implying that every tenth shuttle is lost, then the program will not meet public acceptance. A 1% loss rate is possibly acceptable to the public.
The problem I see is that we live in very interesting scientific times. The money being burned up by NASA could be supporting genetic research, alternative energy development, or (please don't laugh) left in the hands of the taxpayers to pursue what they believe will benefit them personally the most (like a secure retirement in the face of a failing Social Security system).
The whole shuttle program hangs by a thread. Another lost shuttle in the next ten years will probably end the program.
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