[ClaireSolt]

There is a huge fundamental flaw in his assertion that international organizations confer legitimacy. You cannot get legitimacy from illegitimacy. So, if Oil-for-Food sullied the UN it could not confer what he wants from it. When people call the UN a dictator's club, they point to the same flaw.

I read Paul Bremer's book, and Beinart really mischaracterizes the role played by Sistani. He may not have met with us, but he very definately played a pivotal role in leading Iraq and made his views known through channels frequently and reasonably. He is probably the most important man in the story, besides Bush.

This wedge issue bs is just that. They want no accountabiity for their unpatriotic, obstructionist positions. Call them on it and they call that a wedge issue.

Finally, why doe we let them get away with saying that Iraq has overstretched the military? That is ridiculous. The military that was built to fight 2 wars is overstretched by Iraq? 150,000 of 2 million personnel are there.

[Tolik]

I see a useful argument when he is advocating establishing new, outside of UN, international organization formed out of our allies. I agree, its long overdue. We can then leave UN its only useful function as a convenient meeting place to save on travel expenses.

While I agree with you that legitimacy should not be based solely on the international organization approval, it can be a useful tool in our propaganda war.

I agree with everything else you said.