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A Decade After TWA Flight 800 Crashed, It's Safer To Fly
Newsday ^ | 8 July 2006 | Sylvia Adcock

Posted on 07/09/2006 12:12:49 PM PDT by Hal1950

In the decade since TWA Flight 800 exploded off Long Island's South Shore, flying on commercial airlines has grown so much safer that the risk of dying in a plane crash has plunged to its lowest level in history.

Improvements in technology and training -- and an added focus on safety spawned by Flight 800 in July 1996 and the ValuJet crash in Florida two months earlier -- have helped usher in an unprecedented period of air safety, experts say.

In the past five years, the accident rate "has been brought to the brink of extinction," said Arnold Barnett, a professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology who has done extensive studies of aviation statistics.

Excluding the loss of life on Sept. 11, 2001, the chance of perishing in a domestic flight in the United States has been virtually nonexistent in the past five years. Of the 46 million flights of U.S.-based airlines from 2000 to 2006, only two crashed, including 587, en route to the Dominican Republic, and Alaska Airlines Flight 261, off the California coast in January 2000.

"By every measurement the industry is safer today than it has ever been," said John Cox, a former safety chief for the Air Line Pilots Association and now a Washington, D.C.-based consultant.

Also, newer planes make up a greater percentage of the commercial fleet, after airlines parked some of their older models when Sept. 11 caused a slowdown in air travel.

In response to the TWA crash, the Federal Aviation Administration has ordered new procedures to prevent sparks that can cause a fuel tank explosion, and has increased its focus on aging wiring.

(Excerpt) Read more at newsday.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News
KEYWORDS: coverup; flight800; governmentlies; missile; ntsb; shootdown; twa800; twaflight800

1 posted on 07/09/2006 12:12:52 PM PDT by Hal1950
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To: Hal1950

Crashed, my *ss.


2 posted on 07/09/2006 12:17:49 PM PDT by Nachum
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To: Hal1950

Since 911, flying is safer thanks to W!


3 posted on 07/09/2006 12:18:40 PM PDT by Rennes Templar ("The future ain't what it used to be".........Yogi Berra)
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To: Hal1950
"....the accident rate "has been brought to the brink of extinction,"

Unless a missile disguised as an exploding center fuel tank runs into your plane.........

4 posted on 07/09/2006 12:19:49 PM PDT by ALASKA
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To: All
Conpiracy theorists have continued to allege that TWA 800 was the victim of a missile(s) shootdown. The following is in anticipation that some of them will do so in this thread.

Here is the detailed report of airborne witnesses Faret & Wendell which they prepared after their interviews by the FBI and NTSB because "we felt that they did not capture the detail we expressed, or the certainty of our facts." It accordingly appears that NO government agency (including the FBI, CIA & NTSB) has this report clearly stating the the huge fireball exploded at 7500 feet, NOT at 13,800 feet where the 747 became disabled at 8:31:12

The ATC tape transcript documenting that the first radio report of the huge fireball was timestamped at 8:31:50 - 38 seconds after the initial event disabled the 747 at 13,800 feet..

When the FBI decreed that none of the witnesses would be allowed to testify at the NTSB's first hearing (in Baltimore), the NTSB made tentative plans to have Elizabeth Loftus, "a psychologist who has written extensively about eyewitness testimony", appear at the Baltimore hearing to explain the unreliability of witnesses' observations and recollections as well as the problems arising from "tainting" (input from other sources). Brain Often Blurs What Eyes See

The public was further confused thereafter by "zoom-climb" videos prepared first by the CIA/FBI and NTSB. CIA & NTSB "Explanation" Videos

In summary, it's clear from the detailed report of Faret & Wendell that the disaster did not unfold as we all (the public, government, press and conspiracy theorists) thought it did. Not only was Flight 800 not the victim of a missile attack, it would be impossible for anyone to conjure up a palatable "missile(s) shootdown" scenario that would not be in obvious conflict with the report of those 2 airborne witnesses.

5 posted on 07/09/2006 12:20:13 PM PDT by Hal1950
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To: Rennes Templar
And thanks to citizens that will beat the crap out of anyone that tries anything.
6 posted on 07/09/2006 12:20:29 PM PDT by varyouga (I no longer fear death. I only fear the day when the DUmmies take over.)
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To: Rennes Templar
That's not true, you know. Flying is safer because if you stand up on my plane and announce I hijack, I will kill you. Or the guy behind me will, but in either case, there will be no hijack.

The TSA is window dressing, and accomplishes nothing.

7 posted on 07/09/2006 12:22:25 PM PDT by patton (LGOPs = head toward the noise, kill anyone not dressed like you.)
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To: Hal1950
"In response to the TWA crash, the Federal Aviation Administration has ordered new procedures to prevent sparks that can cause a fuel tank explosion, and has increased its focus on aging wiring."

Preventing sparks from bombs and missiles is very important to flight safety.

8 posted on 07/09/2006 12:25:33 PM PDT by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: Hal1950

They said the same thing about the Titanic.


9 posted on 07/09/2006 12:30:07 PM PDT by sgtbono2002 (The fourth estate is a fifth column.)
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To: Hal1950

Quoting:

" A short "pin flash of light " appeared on the ground (perhaps water). Very shortly thereafter the white light exploded instantaneously into a huge red-orange ball. My initial thoughts were "who's shooting fireworks tonight. " The magnitude of the fire ball, and altitude, quickly (less than a second) ruled that out. Immediately thereafter a large fire ball emerged from the bottom of the initial fireball, accelerating straight down, as if it had just started to fall. Like a teardrop it drew with it a tail of fire down to the water surface. We watched intently as the descending fire fell closer to the water.


10 posted on 07/09/2006 12:32:44 PM PDT by marron
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To: Hal1950

reading something like 'the accident rate "has been brought to the brink of extinction"' makes me feel a little bit uneasy. It has a definite aftertaste of the Concord's 'perfect safety record' or a ship being deemed 'unsinkable'

$hit happens, and it has a tendency to make people regret words like these.


11 posted on 07/09/2006 12:35:09 PM PDT by verum ago (Proper foreign policy makes loud noises.)
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To: Hal1950

So where are the photos of the wreckage reassembled in the hanger so we can take a look for ourselves? Various zoom ed photos of what is left of the alleged miscreant fuel tank? the wiring? Replays of the Radar tapes? Cockpit recorders, ATC tapes? A copy of the "final report" with documentation?


12 posted on 07/09/2006 12:41:31 PM PDT by Paladin2 (If the political indictment's from Fitz, the jury always acquits.)
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To: verum ago
... reading something like 'the accident rate "has been brought to the brink of extinction"' makes me feel a little bit uneasy.

It should ... it's an idiotic comment to make attributed to some so called expert with MIT credentials. This so called expert ought to put his slide rule away & get out from behind his desk and try living in the real world. Making a statement like that will come back to haunt you every time.

13 posted on 07/09/2006 12:49:22 PM PDT by BluH2o
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To: Hal1950

Still won't fly. Enjoying the Flight Free Lifestyle.
Join me! Conserve more gas than a thousand Prius owners!
(You too can speak smuggly with your eyes closed! It's fun!)


14 posted on 07/09/2006 12:52:41 PM PDT by NaughtiusMaximus (Having a Kerry/Edwards bumpersticker on your car is like having "Born Loozer" tatooed on your arm.)
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To: Hal1950

It is painfull for me personally, that the benchmark iconic image of air disaster is TWA800. I was a TWA employee at the time and rode it until the end. Ever since flt800 went down, the image of that aircraft is put up with any mention of air disaster.


15 posted on 07/09/2006 12:53:35 PM PDT by Uriah_lost (http://www.wingercomics.com/d/20051205.html)
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To: Rennes Templar
We must do something to get the Bush Administration to Re-Open the TWA Investigation.
16 posted on 07/09/2006 12:55:17 PM PDT by H. Paul Pressler IV
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To: Hal1950
Conpiracy theorists have continued to allege that TWA 800 was the victim of a missile(s) shootdown. The following is in anticipation that some of them will do so in this thread.

You mean similar to you spam posting this on every thread that you post? Verbatim?

In summary, it's clear from the detailed report of Faret & Wendell that the disaster did not unfold as we all (the public, government, press and conspiracy theorists) thought it did. Not only was Flight 800 not the victim of a missile attack, it would be impossible for anyone to conjure up a palatable "missile(s) shootdown" scenario that would not be in obvious conflict with the report of those 2 airborne witnesses.

What makes your pilots more believable than the witnesses that saw a streak going upwards? Or the co-pilot, Nasir Aziz, who was told all he saw a meteor? Nothing.

17 posted on 07/09/2006 1:08:10 PM PDT by DJ MacWoW (If you think you know what's coming next....You don't know Jack.)
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To: DJ MacWoW; Hal1950

Read the portion I quoted in post #10. Even his pilots saw a missile.


18 posted on 07/09/2006 1:14:38 PM PDT by marron
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To: marron
Read the portion I quoted in post #10. Even his pilots saw a missile.

:)

19 posted on 07/09/2006 1:16:55 PM PDT by DJ MacWoW (If you think you know what's coming next....You don't know Jack.)
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To: Hal1950
It accordingly appears that NO government agency (including the FBI, CIA & NTSB) has this report clearly stating the the huge fireball exploded at 7500 feet, NOT at 13,800 feet where the 747 became disabled at 8:31:12

Even your pilots put the plane within range of a missile.

20 posted on 07/09/2006 1:19:57 PM PDT by DJ MacWoW (If you think you know what's coming next....You don't know Jack.)
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To: verum ago

Me too. Flying is still very safe, always has been in this country. I trust pilots a great deal (which is why I knew 9/11 was terrorism after the 1st plane hit - I just knew that pilots would do ANYTHING to avoid hitting something like the WTC). STILL, "brink of extinction" is a bit much. Reminds me of the quote about stocks being on a permanently high plateau, shortly before Black Tuesday - 10/29/29. http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_01/seymour062001.html


21 posted on 07/09/2006 1:37:08 PM PDT by PghBaldy (God Bless America.)
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To: H. Paul Pressler IV

Yeah, sure.


22 posted on 07/09/2006 2:02:46 PM PDT by onedoug
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To: Hal1950

Also, if TWA 800 was downed by a terrorist missle wouldn't they be crowing about it?


23 posted on 07/09/2006 2:51:22 PM PDT by ops33 (Retired USAF Senior Master Sergeant)
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To: Hal1950
"we felt that they did not capture the detail we expressed, or the certainty of our facts." It accordingly appears that NO government agency (including the FBI, CIA & NTSB) has this report clearly stating the the huge fireball exploded at 7500 feet, NOT at 13,800 feet where the 747 became disabled at 8:31:12

Thats not what it says

". It has apparent that some aviation experience is required in reading this report. There is one fact that bothers us, however. No mention is ever made of the fact that the explosion was at 7500 feet! We do not dispute the fact that something happened at 13,800 feet, but what happened after that. There is 5000 feet unaccounted for. We would like to emphasize

They also stated that approached the site (according to their report) 5+ minutes after the explosion had happened

Sven thought it could have been a marker beacon on a life raft. This was about 5+ minutes after the explosion. We approached the black-gray smoke cloud on the west side. We were at 7700 feet and were at the top edge of the cloud.

Hardly credible

24 posted on 07/09/2006 2:55:06 PM PDT by Bommer
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To: Nachum

you hit the nail on the head.

When have you ever heard before this event the FBI come out within 48 hours of the event and state strongly this was not a terrorist act.

Stupid people who make the statement and stupid people who beleive them.


25 posted on 07/09/2006 3:17:14 PM PDT by CHICAGOFARMER (12 TH GENERATION PATROIT.)
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To: varyouga

"And thanks to citizens that will beat the crap out of anyone that tries anything."

I hope that is true. I remember the thread last year about some Muslim-looking men that were on a flight acting suspiciously. Everyone on the plane was tense, and people were even crying. But no one did anything.

Perhaps they were waiting until the men pulled out the box cutters or other weapons. I don't know. But I hope what you say is true.


26 posted on 07/09/2006 3:43:42 PM PDT by Reddy (America, Bless God!)
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To: Reddy

When I fly I want to take my handgun concealed. Then and only then will I feel safe. I am a retired commercial pilot. I own firearms and use them often.


27 posted on 07/09/2006 4:00:52 PM PDT by isaac32
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To: Bommer
Nothing you've said makes any sense.

Perhaps your photo explains why.


28 posted on 07/09/2006 4:36:37 PM PDT by Hal1950
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To: patton
Flying is safer because if you stand up on my plane and announce I hijack, I will kill you.

Exactly right. I fly a lot on business and the rules changed on 9/11. I read about an incident last week on a flight into Miami, some fool rushed the cockpit just before landing. Multiple passengers prevented him from reaching the door and "subdued" him.

29 posted on 07/09/2006 4:36:38 PM PDT by SC Swamp Fox (Join our Folding@Home team (Team# 36120) keyword: folding)
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To: Reddy
But no one did anything.

I am willing to bet they were waiting for an overt act. You don't want to be the moron that starts the riot on an airplane.

30 posted on 07/09/2006 4:43:47 PM PDT by SC Swamp Fox (Join our Folding@Home team (Team# 36120) keyword: folding)
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To: ops33
Also, if TWA 800 was downed by a terrorist missle wouldn't they be crowing about it?

Would the press have told us of they did? Keep in mind that the press were solid Clinton fans.

31 posted on 07/09/2006 5:12:47 PM PDT by DJ MacWoW (If you think you know what's coming next....You don't know Jack.)
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To: Hal1950
These facts were well known... I created a timeline of the event back in September of 2002 that accounted for all of the known facts at that time. I reproduce it for you here. You attention is particularly pointed to the entry listed in red...


Since I made a typo in the original, here is a corrected version of the Swordmaker timeline:

---------------------

Let's see if we can construct Asmodeus' oft demanded timeline that our math seems to indicate occurred rather than his wacked out theory.

20:31:00 - Plane flying normally, altitude 13,400 ft., climbing at 33 ft/sec.

21:31:04 - Possible ground-to-air missile launch. Rate of climb accelerates to Mach 2.1.

21:31:07 - Mike Wire notices flare like object rising over house and arcing to left. in the next 8 seconds many more people notice streak, firework, etc.

21:31:10 - Major Fred Meyer sees "meteor like" object flash acorss his field of view.

20:31:12 - ~13,800 ft. - 0 sec. Last transponder return, everything normal, Aircraft climbing at 33 ft./second.

20:31:13 - ~13,840 ft. - ~1 sec. Missile strikes TWA800 on left side at approximately seat row 16-17 transects the passenger cabin spewing partially burned solid rocket fuel (and leaving a red residue on seats in this area), taking out passengers and seats in rows 17-18 and exits aircraft through right side. VDR ends in loud, strange sound. Bright white Ordnance type explosion occurs just after missile exits thin walled cabin. Blast places massive overpressure on nose of aircraft and opens wide gap in side of aircraft. Parts of missile continue on momentum at speed approaching MACH 2 at a vector 190 degrees from north, ejecta from aircraft including seats, passengers, luggage to eventually land in "crosswind blast debris" field. The blast imparts a slightly more eastward vector for the ejecta which combined with the ejecta's already present eastward momentum results in the ejecta coming to rest about 175 degrees from the point of ejection.

20:31:14 - ~13,880 ft. - ~2 sec. 400+ MPH winds acting on the gaping holes in aircraft fuselage causes the "unzip" of the aluminum skin of the nose. Windforce bends the nose up and breaks the "keel" of the fuselage. Signals to control surfaces and engines cease when wires are broken and engines revert to idle. Drag is no longer being counteracted by the thrust of the engines. The plane slows drastically.

20:31:15 - ~13, 900 ft - ~3 sec. Drag pulls the nose up and away from the rest of the fuselage and breaks loose on the right first and falls away to the left where it is still partially attached, twisting the aircraft toward the left and starts to fall pulling the left wing down, changing the vector of lift imparting a strong leftward force on the aircraft. Unbalanced drag toward the left is enormous. This accounts for the sudden leftward change in aircraft vector.

20:31:16:49 - ~13,890 ft - 4.49 sec. First post IE radar return. - The nose swings under and to the right and breaks completely loose and continues on a momentum driven ballistic fall slightly to the right (about 3 degrees) of the original aircraft vector. The noseless aircraft losing both the balance necessary for proper flight AND the thrust of the engines overcoming drag, pitches rapidly up and stalls. it may climb a very small amount during the pitch up before stall.

20:31:17 - ~13,860 ft. - ~5 sec. Gravity's inexorable pull starts the plane on its final trajectory. Drag is slowing the forward velocity and the uncontrolled aircraft is on either a ballistic fall or a somewhat aerodynamic fall.

20:31:21:13 - ~13,500 ft. - 9.13 sec. Second post IE radar return. - Uncontrolled plane pitches and yaws, lift occasionally pulls the plane in different vectors... this time a strong rightward vector. Drag continues to rip and rend the airframe just in front of the wing.

20:31:25:72 - ~12,300 ft. - 13.72 sec. Third post IE radar return. - More gyrations... now vectored back to the right.

20:31:30:37 - ~10,900 ft. - 18.37 sec. Fourth post IE radar return. - Falling steeply now. Much of the forward momentum is gone due to drag. Structural damage is weakening the Center Wing Tank's integrity and wings are no longer as strongly attached to the remaining fuselage.

20:31:32:?? - ~10,050 ft. - ~20 sec. Terminal velocity achieved of ~450 ft./second.

20:31:34:97 - ~9,100 ft. - 22.97 sec. Fifth post IE radar return. Stress is taking its toll on the wingroots. The Center Wing Tank structural members are buckling under the whipping of the plane rolling and pitching. Fuel is now leaking into the area around the Wing roots from the full wing tanks.

20:31:36:?? - ~8,500 ft. - ~24 sec. The aircraft takes a VERY sharp turn to the right (South) and one of the wing's fails, breaking away from the fuselage. The aircraft with only one wing starts to spin rapidly, spewing jet fuel and agitating it into the atmosphere, mixing it with air.

20:31:39:64 - ~7,000 ft. - 27.64 sec. Sixth post IE radar return. - Center Wing Tank explodes from spark caused by MECHANICAL breaking of metal. Volatile air-fuel mix surrounding aircraft ignited into Massive Fireball, Hot fireball begins to RISE, while burning plane falls through bottom of Fireball still spewing liquid fuel which ignites on exit from wingtanks.

8:31:43 - Elmer's "Streak of light" crippled plane appears.

20:31:44:29 - ~4,900 ft. - 32.29 sec. Seventh post IE radar return. - Still falling at 450 ft. per second.

20:31:47 - ~3,680 ft - End of streak - Elmer Asmodeus's mythical "Eyewitness Myth" Explosion of Massive Fireball at 5500-7500 feet.

20:31:48:94 - ~2,800 ft. - 36.94 sec Eighth post IE radar return. - Shortly after the Flight TWA800 falls below the radar horizon and no further radar returns are received.

20:31:55 - ~43 splashdown.

Total Elapsed time from Initiating Event (the missile strike) = ~43 seconds. Plus or minus 2 seconds.

959 posted on 09/04/2002 6:19:00 PM PDT by Swordmaker

As you can see the "massive explosion" at that altitude is easily included in all of the known facts and matches what was reported without excluding an initiating event at 13,800 feet.

32 posted on 07/09/2006 5:52:19 PM PDT by Swordmaker (Remember, the proper pronunciation of IE is "AAAAIIIIIEEEEEEE!")
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To: SC Swamp Fox

I wonder at what point the fear of being socially outcast as a moron for confronting suspicious characters on a plane ends?

When they pull out the weapon? When they try to light their shoe? When is it too late?

Not sure what I would have done on that flight I referenced. But if I was on a flight like that where everyone is in fear and people are actually crying and there is a reasonable possibility that we are in danger, I hope that I and others would risk being called morons.


33 posted on 07/09/2006 6:07:44 PM PDT by Reddy (America, Bless God!)
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To: ops33
Also, if TWA 800 was downed by a terrorist missle wouldn't they be crowing about it?

They did... our press either didn't report it... or, taking the lead from the administration's attitude, deliberately discounted any claims:

"In the absence of explanations, theories abounded. One focused on a fax sent Wednesday to an Arabic language newspaper in Beirut warning of an attack. State Department and CIA officials confirmed they had received copies of the fax Thursday. The message said "tomorrow morning we will strike the Americans in a way they do not expect and it will be very surprising to them," according to one official. A counterterrorism source familiar with the fax said that it was sent at 11 a.m. New York time Wednesday, more than nine hours before the bombing. But a CIA source said that the agency "does not attach too much significance" to the fax.

"The fax, written in Arabic, ends with the following threat: "The Mujahadeen will respond harshly to the threats of the stupid American president. All will be shocked by the magnitude of the response. The determining of the place and time are in the hands of the Mujahadeen. The invaders must get ready to leave alive or dead; and their rendezvous will be morning, and isn't morning near." U.S. News and World Report magazine, in the July 29, 1996 issue, identified the group who sent the fax as, "The Movement of Islamic Jihad/The Jihad Wing of the Arabian Peninsula." [Editors Note: 8pm Eastern Time in New York is early morning in the Persian Gulf.]"
Newsday.com, July 19, 1996

. . . Senior Iranian sources close to the fundamentalist regime in Tehran claimed this weekend that TWA flight 800 was shot down last month by one of three shoulder-fired Stingers of the type used by Islamic guerrillas during the Afghanistan war. The sources said the missiles arrived in America seven months ago after being shipped from Karachi via Rotterdam and on to the Canadian port of Halifax. They claimed an Egyptian fundamentalist group backed by Iran was responsible for smuggling the weapons across the Canadian border into the United States. The group, the Gama'a al-Islamiya, comprises followers of Sheik Omar Abdel-Rahman, a blind Egyptian cleric jailed in the United States over the 1993 New York World Trade Center bombing."
The Times of London, August 27, 1996

" . . . at least one terrorist has claimed credit for the TWA 800 bombing. World Trade Center bomber Ramzi Ahmed Yousef told authorities his group is responsible. Yousef's claim has not been made public, but it is in the FBI file."
The American Spectator, Sept. 1997

If you can read Arabic, here is the Al Hayat article threatening the attack.

34 posted on 07/09/2006 6:57:05 PM PDT by Swordmaker (Remember, the proper pronunciation of IE is "AAAAIIIIIEEEEEEE!")
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To: Swordmaker

Thanks for the info in both posts. :)


35 posted on 07/09/2006 7:31:59 PM PDT by DJ MacWoW (If you think you know what's coming next....You don't know Jack.)
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To: Hal1950
Thank you! Having my intelligence compared to Penn Gillette is a great compliment...especially since he was talking to you. But perhaps your too damn ignorant to understand. Sure are too damn ignorant to read or attempt to debate coherantly! Perhaps your photo explains why.

But I'll bet you saved a bunch a money switching....

36 posted on 07/09/2006 8:36:53 PM PDT by Bommer
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To: DJ MacWoW

If anything would have been covered up it would be when the USS Vincennes accidentally shot down the Iranian Air airbus. The media and the Navy didn't try to cover that up.


37 posted on 07/10/2006 5:01:58 AM PDT by ops33 (Retired USAF Senior Master Sergeant)
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