U.S. striving to detect diesel submarines

Star Tribune ^ | July 08, 2006 – 11:00 PM | Eric Rosenberg Hearst Newspapers

[Bottom_Gun]

Love Busy-2 A friend took me on SeaWolf and as an Old GSSM/Space tech, I was drooling *L*. We do need some new detection tech, Ultra low freq is showing promise, but still needs the tail to do it well. We do need some radically new thinking at approaching this problem

[Joe Miner]

I remember that time now, Japan was going to overtake our economy, we were falling behind in technology, etc.

Yes, engineers were taking Japanese language classes.

The handwringers have moved on to other bogeymen.

[Big Otto]

We can thank Al Gore for this....

He gave the Russians the go-ahead to sell the technology to Iran.


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1560415/posts

[Tirian]

See the book Nimitz Class (author escapes me at present). Military fiction - but realistic enough. Rogue diesel sub with a single tactical nuclear torp takes out a whole carrier group.

[Last Dakotan]

...Japan was going to overtake our economy, we were falling behind..

Your friends didn't recently buy Tandy laptops, did they?

I doubt there is a current US firm that makes 6 axis milling machines.

[palmer]

I did Artificial Intelligence in the 80's, it was a pretty good bubble while it lasted. The Japanese also did AI and they were going to use their superior manufacturing skills to "manufacture" software. Needless to say, software is at least partly creative and it didn't work. But the bogeyman that scares me now is that many Chinese are as smart and motivated as the Japanese but also quite creative.

[palmer]

I doubt there is a current US firm that makes 6 axis milling machines.

That would be pretty scary, but I hope it's not true.

[Retired COB]

The proper term for these boats is "diesel-electric" ... noisy enough when running the engines, of course. Extremely quiet when running on batteries.

If you don't believe that, lift the hood of your car and listen to the battery.

[xactlyright]

Grumman also sold, with Clinton's approval, a couple of five axis milling machines that were used by Grumman to mill out the airframbe of the A-6 Intruder from a single block of aluminum alloy.

[mad_as_he$$]

Haas

[bmwcyle]

I am a Space Maintenance, Q-5 ops, and Q-5 Maintenance grad. when the school was in San Diego.

[bmwcyle]

You are not far off. Trained dauphins might work well.

[stuartcr]

France doesn't have a king anymore.

[encm(ss)]

I too am a retired Diesel/Electric boat sailor, so this is for the non-Navy folks in free republic, not you COB. I am a retired Engineman to be exact.

Battery power with electric motors are very quiet. But when charging batteries with the diesel engine the boat doesn't surface, it snorkels. The snorkel exhaust is below the water and exhaust is dispersed over a large semi-circle area, disapating the exhaust and smoke stays underwater. The diesel engine is run at short intervals. The run time and shutdown intervals are spaced at random to help to avoid detection. Normally, the submarine uses passive sonar. (ie. passive sonar is listen only.) If active sonar is used only one (or short) ping is used. With limited pinging the chance of detection is much lower. Screws are much more sophisticated than any of you suggest. I'll not go there.

[kinetics]

Apparently the Chinese don't want us to find them. I wonder why?

Um, because they are submarines? Isn't that the point of submarines? to be discrete and hidden. It's like asking why spies don't want to be found. Kind of redundant.

[oceanview]

yes, we have.

now china is using the dollars they earn from "free trade" to buy these subs that we cannot detect, which will be used to sink our naval ships in the event of war.

but don't worry about it - its just a "bogeyman".

[Last Dakotan]

Haas

LOL. We have a few of them, nice lightweight machines for aluminum.

I'd like to see you mill a submarine propeller on one.

The American machine tool industry that once led the world died in the 1980's.

[mad_as_he$$]

Well the statement was "6 axis". I am sure that if you wanted one to machine a propeller they would build it - for a price. I assure you they are not light weight and run circles around most other similar units in productivity. I just pulled a job off on one that was three days of very complex moves - the material is 4140. They do make a 120" already but they have continually responded to the market needs for bigger machines. I know of one in this area where the guy built the bed (very large) and put a Haas head on it to do special work for Uncle Sugar.You are correct the industry died but there may be some small comeback of key tools.

[Last Dakotan]

You are correct the industry died but there may be some small comeback of key tools.

What happened to that critical industry was a damn shame.

I think we can both agree never to underestimate American ingenuity.

[sukhoi-30mki]

The USN has mainly exercised with the Swedish Gotlands class boats & benefitted.But Swedes were early in the AIP race,but as of now you could say that they are behind the Germans & the French,who produce more widely used AIP systems.The German fuel cell based modules can go upto 15-20 days underwater,which is just HUGE.The Russians supposedly have a liquid hydrogen based system,which can go upto 10 days,though they are working on systems with thrice that endurance.