IRS Warns Churches Against Campaigning

AP via Drudge ^ | Jul 18, 1:51 PM EDT

[franky]

A review of the IRC 501 c-3

Click on:

http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:JTl709ypEZMJ:fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/24677.pdf+congressional+law+for+tax+free+churches&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=4

[franky]

##"Cardinal to tell people to break the law on supposed moral grounds is pure politics."## I agree in the breaking of the law. There are some though, that feel their morals are bigger than the Church, Of course this is not a dogma of the Church. You can either way with it.

What bothers me is that issues such as gay marriage gets little response from the pulpit.

[Steve Van Doorn]

"There is nothing in the first Amendment that says we have to tax subsidize churches."

You are making a fool out of yourself. You need to read the first amendment before you type.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof: or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

[freedumb2003]

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof: or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

I parsed that and still don't see anything about taxation. Perhaps you can be so kind as to show me which word has "tax" in it. Or be thought the fool yourself.

[Steve Van Doorn]

"Preaching that people should flat-out disobey our nation's Immigration Laws IS political."

Are you suggesting that freedom of speech only applies if it is with in the law?

[freedumb2003]

What bothers me is that issues such as gay marriage gets little response from the pulpit.

Because it doesn't feed the bottom line. Most churches are more interested in their fiscal health than the moral health of their congregation.

[freedumb2003]

Are you suggesting that freedom of speech only applies if it is with in the law?

You're a little slow on the uptake today. This isn't a freedom of speech issue. This is a subsidized speech issue.

[Steve Van Doorn]

"I parsed that and still don't see anything about taxation."

I see your comprehension skills are very low. I will not help you.

[freedumb2003]

IOW, you can't see it either. Because it isn't there.

[freedumb2003]

I know your type. Invent "rights" that don't exist because they fit your theological agenda.

I know your type. We even have a name for you: Liberal.

[Steve Van Doorn]

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof:..."

Why is this difficult?

[Steve Van Doorn]

Oh i just realized you don't know what a freedom is.

You can NOT tax a freedom.

[freedumb2003]

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof:..."

Why is this difficult?

It does NOT say "Congress will tax subsidize such religion." Why is that so difficult? Do you understand the difference between taxation and speech?

Any church can say anything it wants. No one will be coming to take a preacher away for supporting a candidate or supporting law-breaking (although that breaks a different law). But there is nothing in that passage that says they get to be paid for that.

Let a church pay its taxes like everyone else and they can say anything they want (except for when they cross the truly unconstitutional McCain/Feingold crap). The only sanction is paying the taxes we all pay.

[freedumb2003]

You can NOT tax a freedom.

Do you pay taxes? Under what circumstances should someone NOT pay taxes?

When you ask for tax exemption you voluntarily give up rights. Just like when you join a company and sign a non-disclosure agreement.

Rights CAN be signed away.

If you don't like the rules, don't ask for the exemption.

[freedumb2003]

You don't know much about Constitutional Law do you? I can provide some great starter links if it will help.

[Criminal Number 18F]

I went to sleep in America and woke up in the Soviet Union!

Thr priniciple you seem to have missed is: a church that attends to its members' spiritual life is entitled to a tax exemption.

A church that takes up politics as an activity is not.

There's a difference between telling your flock what Jesus said to the moneylenders, to Pilate, or to the faithful at the Sermon on the Mount, and telling your flock what candidate Jesus would oppose.

I seem to recall some famous religious cat saying "My Kingdom is not of this World." If pastors want to take up the worldly burden, they can jolly well pay the worldly tax like the rest of us sinners.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

[Steve Van Doorn]

"It does NOT say "Congress will tax subsidize such religion."

It says just the opposite actually.

[freedumb2003]

It says just the opposite actually.

If you are on the "we shouldn't be offering tax subsidies to churches at all" then grab a hand and climb on board. We have more in common that we thought.

[Steve Van Doorn]

When you ask for tax exemption you voluntarily give up rights.

Rights CAN be signed away.”

I agree with that. That doesn’t change the point. I also agree you can make rules but the rules can’t be abridging freedom of speech.

[freedumb2003]

I also agree you can make rules but the rules can’t be abridging freedom of speech.

OK, you are starting to confuse me. My point is that the Tax Exemption is essentially a self-imposed gag rule. If a church doesn't want to follow the agreed-upon rules, they have oly to give up the associated tax exemption.

But the government can't directly coerce them into saying or not saying anything.