Posted on 07/22/2006 9:38:34 PM PDT by gcruse
Yeah, but at least you were able to make a choice whether or not to drink. There is nothing in Scripture that says you cannot drink alcohol. It certainly does have something to say about being a drunk.
It's synonymous to the Roman Catholic church proclaiming only (forced) celibate men can be priests. Scripture doesn't say you have to be, and in fact discusses such when it talks about elder/overseer qualifications, plus Matthew 8:14 about Peter's mother-in-law. They twist Paul's statement that if you can handle being celibate, you should. They forget the next line that very few can, so it is better for them to be married.
As far as the whole wine/grape juice issue is concerned, they are different and there is nothing in the text ot indicate they didn't use WINE (fermented drink). It may have been a sweeter wine with less alcohol in it, or more, it really is not the point. The bible doesn't 'spec' out what wine's alcohol content has to be in order to be used, or even if it has to be red, white, or blush. But since olden times how to make "wine" has been known and passed along thru the ages (with refinements along the way, of course) but at the end of the day, it's still wine.
And that's what Jesus used. That's what my church uses. If any alcoholic is worried about falling off the wagon drinking an ounce or less at communion, pray to God to preserve you and not let it have any affect or power over you - and then truly believe that He will. I know of testimony that God can cure an alcoholic, drug addicts, can cure people with diseases.
Must be more teaching jobs out there than one would think.
Or these Liberals actually have the courage of their convictions.
What really blows my mind about these idiots is that they think it is their right as professors to proselytize their left wing beliefs on the college’s time.
Carpentry.
How did they keep it from fermenting?
the same way they keep grape juice from fermenting now?
One other thing that these religious colleges are facing is that if they crack down on so-called "academic freedom" (liberalism,) they can run into trouble with their accreditation organization.
"Would Jesus even get a passing grade?"
Not according to these folks.
They have "other" things in mind.
“Phi Beta Kappa is the gold standard,’’ said Rosemary Allen, the Georgetown provost."
Sheesh!
I'm ashamed of some in my generation.
Phi Beta Kappa was more important than maintaining their Christian image. The comment by Dr. York was just an excuse to do what they had been wanting to do for some time now.
By golly...I think you've GOT it!
;o)
&
You may be right.
Mash up some grapes. Store in a jug in the corner.
Strain some and drink when company comes. It is grape juice the first day. After that, it is fermented grape juice, which is wine.
My neighbor makes his own every year. He thinks it is delicious.
Wishful thinking put into your head by some backwards, agenda-pushing, self-delusional preacher...
"Every man serves the good wine first, and, when men have drunk freely, then the poor wine; but you have kept the good wine until now."
John 2:10
Plain grape juice, even when drunk in quantity, would not addle the brain into thinking bad grape juice was palatable.
Grow up. Think (and read) for yourself. And stop parroting some fundie's rants disparaging our Lord's miracles -- just to push an agenda...
Before you accuse me of advocating drinking, know this: I do not drink -- or advocate drinking alcoholic beverages... I just despise those who twist the Word for their own purposes.
I agree with your Biblical reply, the master of the feast commented on how the wine was the best quality stuff they had the whole evening; thus laying aside any argument about what Jesus had prepared. However, when you say "fundie.. push an agenda", I think you then gave up the very ground you gained. I think it's fair to say a church leader shouldn't be drinking. There is no indication that Jesus drank the wine He created. Also, there is Biblical instructions for leaders. Ephesians 5:18, 1 Corinthians 5:11, and probably most notably, 1 Timothy 3:2; all admonish drunkenness. Of course, there is a difference between drunkenness, and simply having a drink. Paul said it was okay to drink wine for the infirmaties; he wasn't encouraging alcholism. The overall idea here is to not put a stumbling block before the other believers. Looking at the instances where drink is mentioned in the Bible, one could safely deduce that it would be better for those in leadership positions in the Body of Christ to avoid it.
bump for publicity
I agree that it was ungracious of me to come down hard on the "fundie preacher" "pushing an agenda" bit -- but I deliberately intended to shock balch3 into questioning whence h/h misinterpretation of Jesus' miracle originated.
Unfortunately, in these parts, the woods are full of "independent' churches where "the pastor's name is the largest thing on the sign". Such "preacher-centered and dominated" churches are almost always founts of distortion of Scripture -- to fit some personal agenda of that particular preacher.
Some folks need to be shaken out of accepting everything that comes from a pulpit just "because the Preacher said it -- so it must be true".
I have found that prayerfully studying Scripture for yourself tends to expose and debunk such "false witnesses"...
Thank you for your chastizing words, I needed them. OTOH, I admit to retaining harsh feelings towards "teachers" who willfully and lyingly distort the Word -- especially re a subject on which the Bible already speaks clearly (alcohol, in this case).
If he is a student of logic, he just committed a modus tollens error.
Well, there was that one guy, who said that one thing....
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me."
- John 14:6
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