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To: sagar

> most of them seemed more anti-Christian and anti-Islamic than anti-Jewish.

This makes a measure of sense:

1) The Christians wiped out heathens in large number back in the day. Look up Charlemagne's "Bloody Verdict of Verden" where he reportedly killed thousands of Saxon heathens for refusing to convert. Scandinavia was converted top-down at the point of a sword. This tends to annoy people, and when it comes to religion, annoyances seem to last. Witness how many Christians are still cheesed of at the Jews for "killing Jesus."

2) Interactions between the Norse and the Muslims happened, but there's little record of any real conflict. On the other hand, islam *today* poses a serious threat to heathens and pagan. Telling an Asatruar or an Odinist that his choice is either conversion or death is a good way to get popped in the nose.

3) Jews: except for the whackos, modern Asatru has nothign much to say one way or the other about Jews, anymore than about Buddhists. They pose no threat, and never did.

The Odinists who hate the Jews are really just carrying over Christian anti-semitism into a wholly different religion. This ain't new... witness all the non-Christian things that got imported into Christianity.


20 posted on 07/23/2006 6:44:45 PM PDT by orionblamblam (I'm interested in science and preventing its corruption, so here I am.)
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To: orionblamblam
The Christians wiped out heathens in large number back in the day. Look up Charlemagne's "Bloody Verdict of Verden" where he reportedly killed thousands of Saxon heathens for refusing to convert. Scandinavia was converted top-down at the point of a sword. This tends to annoy people, and when it comes to religion, annoyances seem to last.

Actually the vast majority of the Germanic heathens, whether the Anglo-Saxon kingdoms in England, the Germanic tribes on the continent, or last of all the Scandinavian nations, were converted through the efforts of missionaries. The heathen Anglo-Saxons of Britain were converted from their worship of Woden/Odin, Thunor/Thor, Tiw, Freya et al. largely through the directing efforts of pope Gregory, who sent Augustine of Canterbury together with many monks to Britain to preach the Word of God to the Anglo-Saxon race. Although the mission lost heart at one point at the prospect of facing the fierce barbarians, encouragement from Gregory persuaded the mission to go on and ultimately Aethelbert, King of Kent, gave them a dwelling-place and food at Canterbury, and allowed them to freely preach the Word. After a long period (with some reverses) Christianity eventually took hold throughout Anglo-Saxon Britain, and the Anglo-Saxons in turn sent monk missionaries such as Willibrord (a Northumbrian) and Boniface (a West Saxon) to the continent, first to Frisia, then Saxony, Thuringia, Bavaria and elsewhere. It was through the foundation of monasteries that Christianity was ultimately established in Frisia and central and western Germany. Yes, it is true at a later point in time Charlemagne pursued military campaigns against the heathen Saxons and defeated them in a battle in 782, the survivors of which were forcibly converted. But that was not how the bulk of the Germanic/Norse heathens became Christians. And of course later, missions from England and Hamburg-Bremen were key to establishing Christianity among the Scandinavians, first among the Danes in the last third of the tenth century, Norway in the first third of the eleventh century, and Sweden much later.

Yes, there was a top-down aspect to the conversion, as the missionaries focused their preaching on the leaders, but the idea that the bulk of the heathen Germanic/Norse nations were converted through violence is rubbish, although you certainly do a good job of repeating the politically-correct version of history that one might take away from watching Hollywood movies.

35 posted on 07/23/2006 10:44:40 PM PDT by SirJohnBarleycorn
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