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To: az_jdhayworth_fan
"I'm confused by your comments about boys being required to employ some decorum in their behavior, and how this is bad.
"

First of all...let me say congratulations to your daughter!
What a GREAT ACCOPLISHMENT!
You sound (and should be) VERY PROUD!!!

I am guessing that the above comment was more along the line of how I feel about school discipline.
I am not sure, however, but I will explain what I have seen in 16+ years in education.
First let me start with MY expectations of my own children's behavior in a classroom setting.

They will be respectful.
They will listen to and follow directions.
They will be quiet when it is time to listen and to work.
They will tell the truth.

We frequently say, "Sit down, be quite, hold still and listen!"
(just to name a few)

That being said, some behaviors which ARE NOT appropriate during class time ARE appropriate outside of the classroom.

Running/yelling/playing make-believe games etc...
Many times these "types" of behaviors are just labeled as BAD because they occur in the classroom, rather than misplaced.
For example:
We have a rule at our house that before you can "play guns or weapons or war games " with other children you have to ask their mom or dad first.
If it is ok with them..it is ok with us.
When my son first went to preschool he broke the rule of playing "pretend weapons" at school.
We supported the consequences for his rule-breaking and reinforced the expectation at home.
We DID NOT, however, support the words the preschool teacher used when speaking with our son.
Rather than council him regarding the classroom rules, and punish him with the explained consequences she said to him, "Playing violent games is bad. It is NOT NICE to play guns and swords, you are pretending to hurt and kill people."
(that is as close as I can remember).
I should also note that my husband was deployed with the Marine Corps to Kuwait/Iraq for a year.

So I confronted the teacher regarding her choice of words. I explained that she was conveying a "moral judgment" rather than just enforcing the rules (which I supported).
She COULD NOT understand the difference and got her nose out of joint in the process.
I tried to convey the idea that there are certain moral absolutes that we should be able to agree on:
1) Stealing is wrong
2) Being disrespectful is wrong
etc..
But that playing make-believe games of war, although not acceptable at school, WERE not wrong in our family.

She didn't ever grasp my concept, but at least I made myself clear.

Does THAT make any sense?

Anyway, as far as what I have seen in school these past years, there are many occasions where the natural occurrence of more "girlish" behaviors are celebrated and reinforced (as they SHOULD BE)...
sitting quietly, paying attention, working cooperatively, fine motor etc...
Whereas the opportunities for boys to be celebrated in areas in which they excel have been declining rapidly or have been eliminated.

(again, I HOPE I am making sense!)
56 posted on 07/25/2006 12:00:55 PM PDT by M0sby (((PROUD WIFE of MSgt Edwards USMC)))
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To: M0sby

Your experience sheds light on the problem way better than the example used by the author. The problem seems to be a certain type of indoctrination that has been infiltrating our schools for decades. But I don't think it thwarts only boys. I think it affects all children who are basically told not to think for themselves. They are presented with a monolithic set of values and admonished if they disagree on any count. Your example of the comments made by the teacher about the military are a perfect example!! She is making a direct value judgement (and negative, too) about our proud, brave, and self-sacrificing young men and women fighting to preserve her freedom to say what she wants.

I am very concerned with this type of attitude on the part of educators from K-16 (or 18)!! But, I really do think it affects all students. I do believe that boys and girls should be encouraged to do Physical Education and recess,and that boys are probably more handicapped by the lack of this than girls when it comes to the younger ones. It makes perfect sense that they need this outlet and I, like you, would prefer that teachers make rules and enforce them without stamping their own value judgements all over them.

When asked "why", they must say something, but the last thing they should be doing is dissing our military. They could point to events such as Columbine and relate that it's hard to tell play from reality sometimes, sort of like the jokes about bombs at the airport. I don't know, just brainstorming what I would try to say if I were put in the position of enforcing something like this.


63 posted on 07/25/2006 12:43:29 PM PDT by az_jdhayworth_fan
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To: M0sby

Well, well said!


90 posted on 07/27/2006 9:04:58 AM PDT by gogeo (The /sarc tag is a form of training wheels for those unable to discern intellectual subtlety.)
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