A military draft? (Thomas Sowell)

Townhall.com ^ | 8/1/06 | Thomas Sowell

[Wolfie]

Plus, a draft with the usual deferrments likely to accrue only to those who could afford would never fly with the American public again.

[dread78645]

"The Partridge Family was neither a partridge nor a family. Discuss."

[nina0113]

Not defensive at all. I said "as a prerequisite for voter registration." How do you translate that to "forced to serve?"

[A. Pole]

Just getting such people used to the idea of duty and discipline could be a major drain on the military

Imagine if 50% plus of draftees believed that they are being sent to war which they oppose or have no stake in. You would need to use fear of execution to make them fight. Such army would not be much more motivated that army of Saddam Hussein.

[HaveHadEnough]

To avoid the draft, I'm sure they would have practiced. But in any event, I guess the new policy would be, "You can tell, but we just don't care anymore."

[dread78645]

"No, were not homosexuals, but we are willing to learn."

[A. Pole]

Based on the 2000 census figures, there were 2,078,853 males and 1,972,745 females aged 18. If you trained these aproximately 4 million per year for one day approximating 333,000 a month at $50 per person, you would pay $200 million a year.

$50 per person? This is no enough for one class of shooting pistols!

[taxcontrol]

...."a short introduction into weapons and first aid," would have any meaningful effect on the military effectiveness of a rapid callup is laughable.

Not based upon my experience with the military. Having been an Infantry Sergent, and having worked with recruiters, I could see the difference between folks who had basic weapons familiarity and first aid training right away. Often, because of the lack of education or skill in other recruits, these individuals were placed in charge or used as instructors aides. But maybe that is just my real world experience.

As to the existing selective service registration.... it is little more than a collection of names and addresses. It provides almost NO relevant or useful information with regards to the current address, what skills the individual has, what physical shape or condition the person is in or if they would be able to medically serve. It is a WWII hold over concept and would require a MINIMUM of 5 to 6 months to get the new recruits to a battle field. It is based on the concept that randomness of selection is a fairer way to draft someone that filling the skills required by the military.

....No offense meant, but that is a ridiculous proposition based on false assumptions.

Actually it is based on my real world observations. When military units have supported outreach programs through such programs as Sr and Jr ROTC, there are many other kids who see such efforts and recruitment goes up immediately after wards. That is why the Army has the Golden Knights, the Air Force has the Blue Angels, etc. It is advertisement for recruiters. If you don't believe me, go ask your local recruiter.

The primary purpose of the Selective Service is to provide the manpower in case there is a draft. Right now, it can provide little more than names, SSN and addresses. What I propose would improve the system by enabling a smaller draft targeted to the requirements of the military.

[taxcontrol]

167,000 per month works out to an average of about 900 per state per weekend. Between National Guard facilities and school gyms, the facilities do exist. As for paying the cost of the travel, that is what the $50 covers. As for food, MREs for lunch. They can get their breakfast and dinner on their own nickle just like a person who has a working job is expected to do.

One of the cardinal rules for data gathering is to collect the data as close to the source as possible. That would mean getting the data directly from the individual. That is why registration is an individual responsibility. Another rule is to keep the data close to the purpose that it is needed for. Draft information is needed for the military.... it is not needed by schools, the Red Cross, local fire departments, etc. That is why it is best to use the military for this purpose.

As to the value provided... I see a huge value based upon my experiences. You don't so we will simply have to disagree.

[Gordongekko909]

Thomas Sowell *PING*

FRmail me if you want on or off the Thomas Sowell Ping List.

[kabar]

Not based upon my experience with the military. Having been an Infantry Sergent, and having worked with recruiters, I could see the difference between folks who had basic weapons familiarity and first aid training right away. Often, because of the lack of education or skill in other recruits, these individuals were placed in charge or used as instructors aides. But maybe that is just my real world experience.

I spent almost 8 years on active duty as a naval officer. I gained my commission through the regular NROTC scholarship program. You don't acquire basic weapons familiarity in less than 8 hours.

As to the existing selective service registration.... it is little more than a collection of names and addresses. It provides almost NO relevant or useful information with regards to the current address, what skills the individual has, what physical shape or condition the person is in or if they would be able to medically serve. It is a WWII hold over concept and would require a MINIMUM of 5 to 6 months to get the new recruits to a battle field. It is based on the concept that randomness of selection is a fairer way to draft someone that filling the skills required by the military.

You can get the information on address, skills, etc., by modifying the registration process. Information on physical conditioning is not static. After a few months or years, it is meaningless.

Actually it is based on my real world observations. When military units have supported outreach programs through such programs as Sr and Jr ROTC, there are many other kids who see such efforts and recruitment goes up immediately after wards. That is why the Army has the Golden Knights, the Air Force has the Blue Angels, etc. It is advertisement for recruiters. If you don't believe me, go ask your local recruiter.

I live in the real world as well. I am all for the ROTC programs in high school and college. FYI: The NAVY has the Blue Angels, the USAF the Thunderbirds.

The primary purpose of the Selective Service is to provide the manpower in case there is a draft. Right now, it can provide little more than names, SSN and addresses. What I propose would improve the system by enabling a smaller draft targeted to the requirements of the military.

You cannot make the SS more selective by targetting various skills and people. Congress and the public would never stand for it.

[Ace of Spades]

How do you not? Especially when what you really meant to say was "I'd like to see everyone else go through Basic Training, or some variant thereof, as a prerequisite to voter registration. Except for me, because I'm too old now."

[PeteB570]

That is the great dream of the Libs. They want the draft back.

They want to see draft dodgers, people burning draft cards, protests, all of the "great times" of the 60s out front and live at 6:00.

Bring back the draft? Not no but He** NO.

[gafusa]

Yes, because conscript armies generally fight terribly. Massive desertions, they will normally run to save their lives, over standing and fighting. A volunteer army, unless completely outnumbered and outgunned, will pretty much always smash through a conscript army with no trouble.

[Gordongekko909]

Such army would not be much more motivated that army of Saddam Hussein.

Totally. There's a big advantage to fighting against an army of draftees: pamphlets are just as effective as bullets for taking the opposition's forces out of the fight. We don't need to be giving our enemies any advantages, let alone that one.

[kabar]

167,000 per month works out to an average of about 900 per state per weekend. Between National Guard facilities and school gyms, the facilities do exist. As for paying the cost of the travel, that is what the $50 covers. As for food, MREs for lunch. They can get their breakfast and dinner on their own nickle just like a person who has a working job is expected to do./

Of course that is not the way it works out. You would get a handful in Wyoming and thousands in California. There is a lot more to the administration and logistics of the proposed program than you might think. I spent my naval career as a Supply Officer and have some appreciation of the logistics involved.

One of the cardinal rules for data gathering is to collect the data as close to the source as possible. That would mean getting the data directly from the individual. That is why registration is an individual responsibility. Another rule is to keep the data close to the purpose that it is needed for. Draft information is needed for the military.... it is not needed by schools, the Red Cross, local fire departments, etc. That is why it is best to use the military for this purpose.

The Selective Service system in an independent federal agency and not under DOD. Almost all male U.S. citizens, and male aliens living in the U.S., who are 18 through 25, are required to register with Selective Service. Members of the Reserve and National Guard not on full-time active duty must register as well. We don't need the military to take on the function.

As to the value provided... I see a huge value based upon my experiences. You don't so we will simply have to disagree.

Based on my experiences, I see it as a colossal waste of money and manpower. We will agree to disagree.

[nina0113]

Thanks for telling me what I really meant. How's that psychic power work out at the casino?

[wolfcreek]

My Daughter is in the AF and after basics, I was a little disappointed at the amount of real warfare training she received. (even though she's in personnel) She said they were changing the duration of training in order to have more hands-on weapons instruction but, not until next year.

I would think a civilian militia corp similar to the NG would be appropriate for everyone. That would help weed out the 'don't wanna bees'.

[Billthedrill]

The question isn't how we build a stronger, more educated population, it's how we build a better military. I would be the first to admit that time in the military would be good for most of the population - it was certainly good for me - but that isn't what the military is for. That's what Scout camp is for. And even that, and JROTC and ROTC, are voluntary organizations.

However, I do think that some sort of service requirement might be a good prerequisite for voting. Don't see it ever getting past the inevitable screaming by the lazy that their civil rights were being taken away, though.

[GeronL]

actually legislators and stuff have family members in the military at a higher rate than average Americans.

I oppose a draft because it is another form of state slavery. Yes, SLAVERY.