Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Theocracy: the Origin of American Democracy
thomasbrewton.com ^ | July 31, 2006 | Thomas E. Brewton

Posted on 08/02/2006 2:38:55 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-45 next last

1 posted on 08/02/2006 2:38:57 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Tailgunner Joe

Interesting. Would the explicit exclusion of a religious test for holding public office in the Constitution make secularism the foundation of the American Republic?


2 posted on 08/02/2006 2:46:07 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: tacticalogic
No, because the entire purpose of the exclusion of religious tests is to protect the free exercise of religion by office holders. The purpose of the rule is religious, not secular. An office holder has the God-given inalienable right to express any religious belief. Secular ACLU zealots have reversed the meaning of the Constitution 180 degrees, by claiming that the office-holder has no right to express any religious beliefs, because they are an agent of the government and to do so would violate the separation of Church and State. Leftist judicial activists have "evolved" the meaning of our "living Constitution" to make it mean the exact opposite of the Founders' original intent.
3 posted on 08/02/2006 2:53:38 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Tailgunner Joe

A very interesting historical view. Thank you for it. While what you have offered is largly true, it is also true that Puritan settlements were often harsh and even cruel in their treatment of both sinners and non-comformists. Some of their punishments for transgressions were, in truth, closer to those of the taliban than to our modern system of legal remedies. I do not intend to diminish the remarkable contributions of the Puritans, but only to add that Theocracies or any governments too closely tied to religion are dangerous to both freedom and to progress.


4 posted on 08/02/2006 3:05:20 PM PDT by Continental Soldier
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tailgunner Joe

It is indeed interesting, but the main influences on the Constitution, Monroe, Hamilton, Morris and others hardly fit the mode of the New England patriots like Adams. We have a whole seperate set of circumstances when we look at Pennsylvania (with the most populus city), Virginia, Maryland and the Carolinas, none of which historically mimiced the New England Congreagionalist/Puritan/Presbyter history of New England.


5 posted on 08/02/2006 3:23:58 PM PDT by KC Burke
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Tailgunner Joe

Since the Massachusetts Bay Company was not founded until 1630, why are the Pilgrims lumped with the Puritans? The Pilgrims got here in 1620, ten years before the Puritans arrived in Boston. Were the Pilgrims members of the Congregational Church? The Pilgrims did go to Holland, but did they go as Puritans? The members of my family who descended from Gov. Bradford were members of the Church of England, or in this country, the Episcopal Church.


6 posted on 08/02/2006 3:34:53 PM PDT by MondoQueen (MondoQueen (poetic licenses for sale at this site))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tailgunner Joe
Bump
To read later
7 posted on 08/02/2006 3:37:01 PM PDT by Fiddlstix (Warning! This Is A Subliminal Tagline! Read it at your own risk!(Presented by TagLines R US))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tailgunner Joe

Good post. Congregational Churches were the origin of American concepts of democratic self-government.

I read a good article(sermon)on why congregationalism is biblical and so is democracy and not monarchy (rule by one), oligarchy (rule by a few), aristocracy (rule by the fittest), or anarchy (rule by no one), because of freedom in Christ.

It never ceases to amaze me why some people prefer tyranny (leftism), dictatorship (fascism) and try to have control over democracy (freedom). Maybe that because there are three kind of people, those who have a need to control, those who have the need to be controlled. Then there is the third kind. The people who are free and insist that others are likewise and that this is Biblical Congregationalism.


8 posted on 08/02/2006 4:18:50 PM PDT by FreeRep
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tailgunner Joe

So we've actually misunderstood the Constitution all these years, and the federal government is supposed to be a theocracy?


9 posted on 08/02/2006 4:20:16 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Tailgunner Joe
Secular ACLU zealots have reversed the meaning of the Constitution 180 degrees, by claiming that the office-holder has no right to express any religious beliefs, because they are an agent of the government and to do so would violate the separation of Church and State. Leftist judicial activists have "evolved" the meaning of our "living Constitution" to make it mean the exact opposite of the Founders' original intent.

I disagree. I believe the federal government was originally intended to be secular, and the "secular" ACLU zealots have corrupted it through the implementation of "secular hunanism" into public policy. What they call "secular humanism" is intentionally indistinguishable from "theocratic humanism". They have not corrupted the system by making it secular, they have corrupted it by making it theocratic, using a theism that is intentionally misrepresented as secular.

10 posted on 08/02/2006 4:28:15 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Tailgunner Joe

Good find!


11 posted on 08/02/2006 4:40:03 PM PDT by A. Pole ("Gay marriage" - Karl Rove's conspiracy to defeat Democrats?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tailgunner Joe

> Secular ACLU zealots have reversed the meaning of the Constitution 180 degrees, by claiming that the office-holder has no right to express any religious beliefs

Reference, please.


12 posted on 08/02/2006 4:51:45 PM PDT by orionblamblam (I'm interested in science and preventing its corruption, so here I am.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Tailgunner Joe; tacticalogic

The answer is actually slightly more subtle. Plymount was homogenous. The founding fathers, 150 laters, were too pluralistic to assert any theocracy of that nature, but they had a bolder plan, still, a bold combination of the Natural Law of St. Thomas of Aquinas, the congregationalism of John Calvin, and (okay, somewhat anachronistic) an understanding of the invisible hand of John Locke:

All religions would have access to the public forum, in degrees equivalent to the passion of their people and prevalence of their notions. The prohibition of a religious test is not opposed to the expression of religion, but for the explicit purpose of preventing any given religion, once having a temporary electoral advantage, from dismantling the very free exchange of ideas from which it emerged; the promotion of religion in the public forum requires an absence of government regulation as surely as the promotion of commerce does; a religious test would be just as harmful to religion as government subsidies are to free markets.


13 posted on 08/02/2006 5:10:32 PM PDT by dangus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: dangus

later =, oddly, years later.


14 posted on 08/02/2006 5:10:55 PM PDT by dangus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: dangus

ARGH! TYPOS ARE INVADING!!!

Plymount = Plymouth. Laters= years later.


15 posted on 08/02/2006 5:12:15 PM PDT by dangus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: dangus

The prohibition of a religious test is not meant to prevent the influence of religion over government, but rather to limit the influence of government over religion.


16 posted on 08/02/2006 5:17:34 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: tacticalogic

What that would do is undermine the basis for any Constitution or any meaning at all, since in its denial of God it denies the starting point for all truth.


17 posted on 08/02/2006 5:21:02 PM PDT by Lexinom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Lexinom
What that would do is undermine the basis for any Constitution or any meaning at all, since in its denial of God it denies the starting point for all truth.

And you'd be left with a "living document" with no fixed meaning at all, only what is politically opportunistic at the moment.

18 posted on 08/02/2006 5:27:23 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Tailgunner Joe
The prohibition of a religious test is not meant to prevent the influence of religion over government, but rather to limit the influence of government over religion.

The restriction on Congress passing laws respecting an establishment of religion does that. If that's all there was to it the prohibition on a religious test for holding public office would not be there.

19 posted on 08/02/2006 5:35:32 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: tacticalogic

Sounds rather familiar...


20 posted on 08/02/2006 5:40:53 PM PDT by Lexinom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-45 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson