Europe and US polls apart on conflict (in Lebanon)

The Australian from The Times ^ | August 05, 2006 | Tom Baldwin

[CheyennePress]

Tom Baldwin, Washington August 05, 2006

ISRAEL'S military campaign in southern Lebanon is still being backed by most American voters, according to a survey published on Thursday that shows public opinion in the US once again sharply at odds with views in Europe. The Los Angeles Times-Bloomberg poll found 59per cent believe Israel's actions are "justified", although a quarter of this group stated that the military had behaved in an "excessively harsh" fashion.

In contrast, a recent YouGov-Daily Telegraph poll in Britain showed that only 17 per cent of those surveyed believe that Israel has made an "appropriate and proportional" response to the kidnapping of its soldiers.

A Forsa/Stern poll has shown that 75per cent of Germans believe Israel's actions are "disproportionate" and only 12 per cent approve of the attacks on Palestinian or Lebanese settlements.

Such a division across the Atlantic in Western public opinion is similar to that which opened up over whether there should be an invasion of Iraq.

This is, in part, a reflection of the more aggressive stance adopted by American voters after the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

John McCain, the Republican senator, spoke for many this week when he suggested that the US would respond in a similar way to Israel if it faced missile attacks from the other side of the Mexican border.

But support for Israel, which extends to billions of dollars in military aid, has deeper roots within US politics, where there is a long-established and influential Jewish lobby.

This emphasises Israel's post-Holocaust origins, its staunch support for the US during the Cold War and its role as a democracy in a region prone to dictatorship and extremism.

The bipartisan pro-Israel lobby has, in recent years, been further strengthened by the fervour of millions of right-wing evangelical Christians, at least some of whom believe that the Middle East conflict is the fulfilment of the Bible's prophecy of Armageddon.

Last month, the Reverend John Hagee, a Pentecostal television evangelist from Texas, convened a meeting in Washington of 3500 members of Christians Unified for Israel. The organisation is dedicated to building support for Israel, even in states where there are few Jewish voters.

Senator Sam Brownback of Kansas, a Republican presidential hopeful, attended the rally, as did senator Rick Santorum, of Pennsylvania, Ken Mehlman, the Republican National Committee chairman, and Daniel Ayalon, the Israeli ambassador.

Mr Hagee called the Israeli attacks on Lebanon a "miracle of God" and suggested that a ceasefire would violate "God's foreign policy statement" towards Jews. The evangelist is a leading figure in the so-called Christian-Zionist movement, rooted in a literal interpretation of the Book of Revelations, which predicts a final battle between good and evil in Israel, where two billion people will die before Christ's return ushers in a 1000-year period of grace.

"The end of the world as we know it is rapidly approaching ... Rejoice and be exceeding glad - the best is yet to be," Mr Hagee has written in a book that has sold 700,000 copies.

President George W. Bush sent a message to the gathering praising Mr Hagee and his supporters for "spreading the hope of God's love and the universal gift of freedom".

He is said to have added: "God bless and stand by the people of Israel and God bless the United States."

The support for Israel of 50 million American evangelicals chimes with the reality of the administration's foreign policy, which refuses to tolerate terrorist organisations - or the Middle Eastern regimes linked to them.

Dennis Ross, a Middle East envoy in the administrations of George HW Bush and Bill Clinton, said recently that evangelical supporters of Israel were now an "important part of the landscape".

[CheyennePress]

These people clearly do not get it. Nor have they ever, I doubt, met an evangelical Christian.

[MNJohnnie]

Well DUH. Two different questions asked. In Europe they asked if it was "appropriate and proportional" to the "kidnapping of Two solider" that an incredibly biased question designed to prove a predetermined response.

Garbage in/Garbage out Junk Meida polling at its worse

[EagleUSA]

How can there ever be a "measured response" to terrorism. One life is as valuable as 100 lives. Terrorists only understand one thing. Death. That is all that stops them. The EU is a cowardly collection of socialist nations that can barely wipe their own rears. Like our socialists, they would rather pander, wave the white flag, and appease terrorists -- a twisted, sick, selfish, short-term attitude that allows Islamofacism to spread unimpeded.

[The Iceman Cometh]

Much like the recent fake photos and the staged 'massacres' in Lebanon, there is no reason to believe these polls or any polls. The mideast crisis has really shown how willing the 'independant' press is to fabricate news in order to shape opinion.

[cake_crumb]

Britain's part of EUrabia. There are many anti-Semitics there, and sadly, not all of them are Muslim terrorists running free due to the "tougher anti-terrorism laws".

[cake_crumb]

"How can there ever be a 'measured response' to terrorism."

There is no such thing, anymore than there's a "measured response" to a conquering army. It just sounds good and lets the sheep forget that people are fighting to protect their families and their homes.

[B.O. Plenty]

I don't really give a rat's ass what the Brits think either. They will be over-run with muzzies before long, and most of the westerners there will be begging the U.S. for help.....again.

[Finalapproach29er]

EU-rope: Still Jew-haters after all these decades....

Muslims have succeeded in dividing the US and EUrope by demographics. That's a bad sign. IMO

[yldstrk]

Europe tolerates all kinds of fascists even though Europe has to be rescued from fascists at least every fifty years.......

[Paperdoll]

The EU3 are overtly anti-semitic. The Bible says that whoever comes against Israel will not prevail, and historically, they haven't. So if we say "ta-ta" to Israel, we don't stand a chance either.

[snowman_returns]

Britain's part of EUrabia. There are many anti-Semitics there, and sadly, not all of them are Muslim terrorists running free due to the "tougher anti-terrorism laws".

I'm in the 17% of brits who approve of Israeli actions for what that's worth although I actually don't beleive these polls to be honest.

I beleive the anti-semitics here are the muslims, George Galloways disgusting Respect party and all the scum that follow him plus the remanants of the extreme right National Front (these are a minority skinhead type who are virtually dead now).

The rest of the people unfortunately just believe the bulls***t they are fed from the media, in other words they're easily deceived by Hezbullah propaganda images of people crying and bodies being pulled from underneath buildings, however their not necessarily anti-semitic. They just don't think to question the tactics behind it!!

[INSENSITIVE GUY]

"Proportional"war,how stupid!Who ever heard of a proportional war?

[elhombrelibre]

I wonder if Europe would feel the same if the missiles and rockets were being launched into Paris or London? I recall Chirac saying something about his country having nukes and no one had better use terror against France. And I know enough Brits to know they'd be fighting mad if anyone were shooting rockets at Trafalgar Square. Apparently, shooting them at Jews isn't a big deal if you're in Europe. They're just being true to their history.

[familyop]

The posted article is originally from The Times in London. ...good and interesting post. Solutions to problems start with knowledge (even bad news).

[elhombrelibre]

This is how they try to tie Israel's hands; it's all a sophistry that plays into the asymmetrical warfare being used against Israel. Let Israel use unaimed barrages of rockets into Lebanon's cities and see how long these proponents of proportionality pop off about what a great way to wage war that is.

[Leisler]

Once a people become habituated to boot licking, they never are the same. Always trying to recover that fist exhilarating release to total submission. I think Islam, which will be the third try after Nazism and Communism, will do the trick for them. Islam has a lot in common now with modern European socialism. Not much working, don't have to produce much. Islamic correct behavior should shoe in nicely with political correctness. Lots of begging in Islam so the transition from welfare state shouldn't be hard. I don't see much difference between elite rulers from Brussels vs. local mullahs. Actually, local mullahs would be preferred.

[familyop]

Here's an excerpt from a 2002 British poll.

ICM (Poll of British people)

ICM Research interviewed a random sample of 1,000 adults aged 18+ by telephone on 20-21st April, 2002. Interviews were conducted across the country and the results have been weighted to the profile of all adults.
. . .
"Q3. In the dispute in the Middle East between Israel and the Palestinians, from what you have seen and heard about the conflict which of the two do you sympathise with more, Israel or the Palestinians?"

Israel           14%
Palestine      28%
Both            14%
Neither         23%
Don't know   20%

[familyop]

Here's some more interesting information from the YouGov poll of British people mentioned in the article:

How would you rate the American administration's performance in the current crisis?
Excellent	1
Good	4
Fair	18
Poor	32
Very Poor	27
Don't Know	18
Which of the following statements comes closer to your own view?
Tony Blair in the current crisis gives the impression of making up his own mind and taking his own line	15
Tony Blair in the current crisis gives the impression of siding with the Americans, whatever the Americans say	64
Don't know	21

[snowman_returns]

Once a people become habituated to boot licking, they never are the same.

Well, I ain't gonna stand for it and neither are any of the people I know.

Incidentally, this sloppy attitude by Brits at the moment can be turned round pretty quick, Australia have voted and stayed Conservative for a long time and Cananda has just awoken from their long sleep as well. Britain will be next I've no doubt!!

[familyop]

...sorry about the formatting in that last one. This should be easier to read.

Here's some more interesting information from the YouGov poll of British people mentioned in the article:

How would you rate the American administration's performance in the current crisis?
Excellent	1
Good	4
Fair	18
Poor	32
Very Poor	27
Don't Know	18
Which of the following statements comes closer to your own view?
Tony Blair in the current crisis gives the impression of making up his own mind and taking his own line	15
Tony Blair in the current crisis gives the impression of siding with the Americans, whatever the Americans say	64
Don't know	21