Polish fury over German 'victims'

GERMANY is publicly recalling its suffering in the confusion after the Second World War when millions of civilians from Eastern Europe were expelled. As the newly liberated Poles and Czechs sought revenge on their former oppressors, many German women were raped, beaten and robbed; some were nailed to cartwheels. Now the suffering of Germans is being remembered in an exhibition opening in Berlin today.

For Erika Steinbach, the moving spirit behind Forced Paths, it is the first step towards creating a permanent centre in Berlin to commemorate the 12 million Germans deported from Eastern Europe. “We owe it to ourselves,” the Christian Democrat politician said yesterday. “We owe it to history and our collective memory.” However, Angela Merkel’s Government is bracing itself for a fierce response from the nationalist leadership of Poland.

Lech Kaczynski, the Polish President, says that the centre is an attempt to represent Germans as victims. “It will be better for relations between our countries if this centre never comes into existence,” said the President, who with the Prime Minister, his brother Jaroslaw, makes no secret of his distrust of Germany.

Relations between Berlin and Warsaw are difficult. The Polish prosecutor has opened a case against a German newspaper for describing the twins as potatoes. A Catholic newspaper close to the Government has published a list of German correspondents in Poland, urging readers to make their anger known.

Earlier, one Polish magazine cover depicted Frau Steinbach in a black SS uniform straddling the Chancellor then, Gerhard Schröder. The impression, then as now, was that the Association of Deported Germans had become such a powerful lobbyist that it was forcing a rewriting of German history.

The exhibition tries to depict the deportation of Germans as one of many mass ethnic expulsions carried out in the 20th century. But Wolfgang Benz, the director of the Anti-Semitism Research Centre in Berlin, said that any attempt to commemorate the expelled Germans had to make clear “that the deportations were above all the result of Nazi extermination policies”.

As the newly liberated Poles and Czechs sought revenge on their former oppressors, many German women were raped, beaten and robbed; some were nailed to cartwheels.

Of course not. But 'many', 'some'... These words mean nothing to me. Who, when, where? If there were such cases they need to be investigated in detail and perpetrators punished, no matter whether Polish, Czech or as it most probably was - Russian. But the claims of the expelled are noting but ridiculous - even their leader Erica was born in a house near Gdynia from which a Polish family was thrown out from in 1939, to start with. Now she's leading "the expelled". That's about her credibility.

German must face the facts - they started that war and ruthlessly killed all civilians from the day one. I have nothing against them but claiming victimhood in such case is rather funny.

Cool down, man!

First of all: This is one of the many times where I read something about Erika Steinbach first on FR, the German media hardly takes ANY notice of her AT ALL. Plus: The Bund der Vertriebenen was a major political force in the 1950s. Not today.

Secondly: The photos were a cheap shot. Period.

Thirdly: Nobody's denying that first and foremost Poland was the victim here. BUT: Also the Germans have a right to mourn the losses of their loved ones.

Fourthly: As to comment about the the historical accurateness of the number of losses. True, the numbers differ, roughly between 1.1 and 3 million people. But then again, many just "disappeared", be it because a child starved at a roadside or a raped girl of 14 commited suicide. One will probably never be able to tell the real number because these were tumultuous times. But it's certainly more than a few dozen.

Fifthly: From a journalistic standpoint the article is mostly rubbish. I'm not so sure the Poles and Czechs were overjoyed by the sight of the Red Army as the Times says.

Sixthly: To be quite frank, sometimes it's better to let sleeping dogs lie. It's simply amateurish of heads of state to even dignify Steinbach's (who outside of her constituency is a nobody) nonsense with a riposte. Sure, it's an effective way to score cheap points with the chauvinistic circles in your own country. However it leads you nowhere: What good should come out of this? A "Pommerania Liberation Organization" (PLO) that commits acts of terrorism in the "Polish occupied territories"?

Thanks but I am as cool as a cucumber ;)

First of all: This is one of the many times where I read something about Erika Steinbach first on FR, the German media hardly takes ANY notice of her AT ALL. Plus: The Bund der Vertriebenen was a major political force in the 1950s. Not today.

Whether you want it or not Steinbach dominated German-Polish discourse. Almost every Polish family lost a member killed by 'Germans' during the WW2. So victimizing the nation of perpetrators will generate anger for years and years to come. Also because of its emotional value it will be largely exploited in politics both internal and foreign.

Secondly: The photos were a cheap shot. Period.

It's your opinion and I respect it. But they're real not fakes, like some of the ones from Beirut. The first one to remind you that Nazis was not just Hitler alone plus a couple of his pals. Germans as a nation fell for him. Secondly, this little child was really killed. Where is the killer now? I don't think he ever was martial courted.

Thirdly: Nobody's denying that first and foremost Poland was the victim here. BUT: Also the Germans have a right to mourn the losses of their loved ones.

Of course you have the right to do it. You don't have the right to forget that you reaped what you sowed. Under the US and British administration for the Western Germany 'the punishment' was reeaaly light, you must say. They simply treated you like human beings. A privilege that wasn't on the side of your previous Polish, Russian, Ukrainian, Yugoslavian victims.

Fourthly: As to comment about the the historical accurateness of the number of losses. True, the numbers differ, roughly between 1.1 and 3 million people. But then again, many just "disappeared", be it because a child starved at a roadside or a raped girl of 14 commited suicide. One will probably never be able to tell the real number because these were tumultuous times. But it's certainly more than a few dozen.

Exactly. BUT the numbers given on their site provide the illusion of scientific research which is certainly not true. Especially to those who have no idea about the history and how it really was. Whenever possible you need to investigate these issues very closely. If there was a crime - it should be punished.

Fifthly: From a journalistic standpoint the article is mostly rubbish. I'm not so sure the Poles and Czechs were overjoyed by the sight of the Red Army as the Times says.

Man, I can tell you. Where my family comes from people hated the Soviets so much that they actually fought in their homes when they came in Spetember '39. Also maybe you don't know but the Red Army 'freed' Warsaw in January '45 there wasn't anyone to greet them there among the sea of ruins. To contradict your view of Chechs - much unlike Prague.

Sixthly: To be quite frank, sometimes it's better to let sleeping dogs lie. It's simply amateurish of heads of state to even dignify Steinbach's (who outside of her constituency is a nobody) nonsense with a riposte. Sure, it's an effective way to score cheap points with the chauvinistic circles in your own country. However it leads you nowhere: What good should come out of this? A "Pommerania Liberation Organization" (PLO) that commits acts of terrorism in the "Polish occupied territories"?

I think that our nations need to talk seriously. During all theses years when Poland wasn't independent we never really talked to each other. You had your Marshall plan, we had our Marshall Stalin plan. You turned your head West. We had our head turned East. Without that dialog in truth the demons of the past will prevail. Have you ever been to Poland? Has Kaczynski ever been to Germany?

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