Join a network of citizens who are saying Abolish the IRS and Give Us A Fair Tax

Grassfire.org ^

[Mojave]

Interesting I don't find entitlement spending in the the legislation.

You must have skipped over the monthly payments.

[Man50D]

It gives them unprecedented power to control us by rewarding and punishing behavior.

That's attributable to all the loopholes in the income tax. Loopholes the Fair Tax will eliminate mostly if not in their entirety.

[FreeKeys]

They're being reimbursed for family size? Same as food stamps!

No, EVERYONE would have their SALES TAX reimbursed BY family size (using family size as a sales tax estimator), not for family size. IIRC, food stamps really do belong in the so-called "entitlements" category because they're made for being below the "poverty level."

[ancient_geezer]

You must have skipped over the monthly payments.

Hmm don't see an entitlement, just a return of one's own money paid in excess as taxes on consumption below the povertylevel paid to all legal residents of the U.S.

 

H.R.25

Fair Tax Act of 2005 (Introduced in House)
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:H.R.25:

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`SEC. 301. FAMILY CONSUMPTION ALLOWANCE.

`Each qualified family shall be eligible to receive a sales tax rebate each month. The sales tax rebate shall be in an amount equal to the product of--

• `(1) the rate of tax imposed by section 101, and

• `(2) the monthly poverty level.

`SEC. 302. QUALIFIED FAMILY.

`(a) General Rule- For purposes of this chapter, the term `qualified family' shall mean 1 or more family members sharing a common residence. All family members sharing a common residence shall be considered as part of 1 qualified family.

 

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`SEC. 303. MONTHLY POVERTY LEVEL.

`(a) In General- The monthly poverty level for any particular month shall be one-twelfth of the `annual poverty level.' For purposes of this section the `annual poverty level' shall be the sum of--

• `(1) the annual level determined by the Department of Health and Human Services poverty guidelines required by sections 652 and 673(2) of the Omnibus Reconciliation Act of 1981 for a particular family size, and

• `(2) in case of families that include a married couple, the `annual marriage penalty elimination amount'.

`(b) Annual Marriage Penalty Elimination Amount- The annual marriage penalty elimination amount shall be the amount that is--

• `(1) the amount that is two times the annual level determined by the Department of Health and Human Services poverty guidelines required by sections 652 and 673(2) of the Omnibus Reconciliation Act of 1981 for a family of one, less

• `(2) the annual level determined by the Department of Health and Human Services poverty guidelines required by sections 652 and 673(2) of the Omnibus Reconciliation Act of 1981 for a family of two.

`SEC. 304. REBATE MECHANISM.

`(a) General Rule- The Social Security Administration shall provide a monthly sales tax rebate to duly registered qualified families in an amount determined in accordance with section 301.

`(b) Persons Receiving Rebate- The payments shall be made to the persons designated by the qualifying family in the annual or revised registration for each qualified family in effect with respect to the month for which payment is being made. Payments may only be made to persons 18 years or older. If more than 1 person is designated in a registration to receive the rebate, then the rebate payment shall be divided evenly between or among those persons designated.

`(c) When Rebates Mailed- Rebates shall be mailed on or before the first business day of the month for which the rebate is being provided.

`(d) Smartcards and Direct Electronic Deposit Permissible- The Social Security Administration may provide rebates in the form of smartcards that carry cash balances in their memory for use in making purchases at retail establishments or by direct electronic deposit.

[Mojave]

No, EVERYONE would have their SALES TAX reimbursed BY family size

Nope, they would recieve the "family size" monthly benefit regardless of how much or little tax they paid, if any.

Entitlement.

[Mojave]

Hmm don't see an entitlement, just a return of one's own money paid in excess as taxes

You're seeing things that aren't there.

They would recieve the "family size" monthly benefit regardless of how much or little tax they paid, if any.

[Principled]

Hmmm. The prebate is paid from the gov't to pay taxes to..... the gov't. It pays itself. One pocket to the other.

How much does it cost again?

(napoloen says "idiot! idiot")

Besides, a refund of taxes is not an entitlement. It's a refund of taxes.

[lawdude]

"You need to look at it as a percent of your income. Those who make more pay a less percent of their income, per item, than those who make less. "

But, they buy more items!

[Principled]

Why do you think a tax refund is an entitlement?

Making stupid stuff up makes you sound like you're hiding the real reaosn you oppose reform.

[Mojave]

Why do you think a tax refund is an entitlement?

Don't lie. Your entitlement gets sent regardless of how little taxes recipient paid, if any.

[Mojave]

The prebate is paid from the gov't to pay taxes to..... the gov't.

Don't lie. The recipient may spend his or her entitlement payment on anything they wish. Including non taxable items.

[Principled]

You're the kid screaming out the wrong answer in class and everyone's laughing at you.

First, you have not shown how the tax refund under the nrst is any different than today's tax refunds from standard deductions/exemptions. Hence your objection is not to the nrst, but to tax refunds. But you betray yourself when you claim otherwise. You're lying. Why?

[Principled]

Is this where I once again provide the link that shows, among other things, that irrespective of reported earnings people spend up to the poverty line?

Here it is.

It's a refund of taxes paid on necessity level spending. Argue with the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Have fun.

[Principled]

ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/special.requests/ce/standard/2001/income.txt


you don't know squat.

[Principled]

Even those who report under the poverty level spend up to it... either spending charity, gifts, savings, borrowed money or whatever. People spend.

That's one of the reasons there will be far few net tax consumers under the nrst.

Looks like you've painted yourself into a corner mojave! You reject net tax consumers and the nrst has fewer. Guess that makes you an nrst supporter! LOL!

[freedumb2003]

INteresting article - I wonder if any Fair Tax proponents would like to take it on.

[Natural Law]

I completely agree, but tactics and expectations need to be framed around wrestling power away from the government not along economic lines. Even if we could double the tax revenues with the fair tax initiative, the government will not easly give up the power.

[Man50D]

Even if we could double the tax revenues with the fair tax initiative, the government will not easly give up the power.

You're absolutely correct. That's why it is essential to keep the pressure on your Senators and Representative by telling them if they don't pass The Fair Tax you won't vote for them.

[ancient_geezer]

You're seeing things that aren't there.

Sure looks to be there according to the legislation.

They would recieve the "family size" monthly benefit regardless of how much or little tax they paid, if any.

 

I would much rather see rebate of taxes based in household size capped by povertylevel, than by household income requiring IRS reporting anyday.

In fact I prefer the tax rebate scheme over Congress getting into the game of pick and choose what consumption should be taxed vs what should not that would be opened using any other method like exempting items or classes of goods/services from taxation or particular persons from being taxed.

"The government which steps out of the ranks of the ordinary articles of consumption to select and lay under disproportionate burdens a particular one because it is a comfort, pleasing to the taste or necessary to the health and will therefore be bought, is in that particular a tyranny. Taxes on consumption like those on capital or income, to be just, must be uniform."
Thomas Jefferson to Samuel Smith, 1823. ME 15:432

 

Furthermore, according to the BLS Consumer Expenditure Surveys, It appears virtually every household spends at least the povertylevel,

A case definitely supported by the consumer expenditure survey which organizes household expenditure by reported incomes from all sources:

ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/special.requests/ce/standard/2001/income.txt

 

Frome Table 2. Income before taxes:
Average annual expenditures and characteristics, Consumer Expenditure Survey, 2001

Complete reporting of income a/

Item	Total complete reporting	Less than $5,000	$5,000 to $9,999	$10,000 to $14,999	$15,000 to $19,999	$20,000 to $29,999	$30,000 to $39,999	$40,000 to $59,999	$50,000 to $69,999	$70,000 and over
Households (thousands)	88,735	4,100	6,829	8,099	7,014	12,075	10,508	8,737	12,480	18,892
Income before taxes b/	$47,507	$1,666	$7,675	$12,380	$17,282	$24,494	$34,456	$44,418	$58,943	$113,978
Average annual expenditures	$41,395	$20,517	$16,625	$20,642	$25,028	$28,623	$35,430	$40,900	$50,136	$76,124
Net change in total Assets & Liabilities	-$3,853	$436	-$1	-$675	-$1,174	-$868	-$2,020	-$3,110	-$12,805	-$5,912
Net Change in total Assets	$4,144	$2,299	$2,746	$696	-$263	$2,665	$2,966	$5,656	-$238	$11,962
Net Change in total liabilities	$8,002	$1,863	$2,748	$1,371	$1,371	$3,533	$4,985	$8,766	$12,567	$17,874

 

A tax rebate based on what a household expends dependant upon its size to just provide a healthy diet and shelter is practical and a more than appropriate substitute for governemnt and special interest selections of specific goods and services to be taxed. And reasonably reflects taxes paid in a retail sales tax situation without individual reporting of expenditure or income to a government that simply does not need to know such information as such a level as is required under any income of property based scheme of taxation.

[Principled]

I gotta learn me some html!