Serbia considers Kosovo partition

BBC News ^ | Friday, 11 August 2006

[montyspython]

I have a running tally on all the times Mark has been corrected, this is just another embarrassing moment for him.

[Hoplite]

The MPRI in Aracinovo BS again?

Been there, done that.

Sadly, some "reporters" in Macedonia were simply passing on what the Macedonian security services were whispering in their ears without doing any fact checking first.

[Banat]

Sadly, some "reporters" in Macedonia were simply passing on what the Macedonian security services were whispering in their ears without doing any fact checking first.

You mean like Gutman & Rohde's fantasy musings from Bosnia? Hehehe...

[Hoplite]

It's all fun and denial unless you're one of the Serbs sitting in a prison cell after being convicted of crimes perpetrated at one of the camps Gutman visited or as a part of the Srebrenica massacre documented by Rohde.

Speaking of fun, how are you coming along with this?

[tgambill]

MPRI was in there in fact......confirmed from Army Intell officers I knew, that were just as disgruntled as I was. Hoplite, I got to had it too you. Too bad I wasn't on this forum back in 2000 and you were still spreading the BS. You should be getting your nickel plated Micky Mouse watch for your service and membership due to longitivity and faithful service to ICG and Clark Show.

Oh I know, out comes the mass graves card....ho hum. yawn!!!!!! ahhhhhhh,

If MPRI was in operation storm with Ceku, then they were certainly in Macedonia. The first try to destablize Macedonia pretty much failed. There will be another stab if Kosovo gets independent. However, the planning "party" that figured the world might just forget about the 1244 hasn't happened, has it?

[tgambill]

you used that "Been thar and done it" phrase in an exchange with the Upland...something or other that blew you out of the water on that thread. you must be a legend in your own mind.....hmmmmmmm?/ feeling a little like Custer...or is that Egg custard....

[Hoplite]

MPRI was working with the Macedonian government Tom, not the ANA.

The FY 2002 FMF program will reflect priorities set down by a pending Macedonian Ministry of Defense (MOD) Statement of Work, and developed in cooperation with a DoD assessment team. The MOD terminated U.S. defense consultant MPRI's contract in 2001, which had been the primary USG vehicle for the bilateral military-to-military relationship. However, the MOD has requested, a similar program under new guidelines. Current indications are that the bulk of FY 2002 FMF funds will be directed toward reform consultants and communications equipment. Foreign Military Training and DoD Engagement Activities of Interest: Joint Report to Congress

For the past five years, Macedonia has focused its military efforts on bringing its Army into line with NATO standards, in the hope of one day joining the Western alliance. That has involved less tactical training than bureaucratic moves to redesign the military's force structure and chains of command.

Helping them to do that have been one British officer and 16 former US soldiers working for Military Professional Resources Inc. (MPRI), a private Virginia-based company on contract to the US State Department. For Macedonian government, one way out: talks (CSM, 9 Jul, 2001)

Wow. 16 +1 = 17. Where do you supppose the "MPRI in Aracinovo" tale got it's number from, huh Tom?

The fact of the matter is that the Macedonian military proved incompetent to wage war against the ANA, and the Macedonian government requested NATO's intervention in getting the ANA out of Aracinovo.

By taking bits and pieces of factual events, modifying them, and putting them together with other factual misrepresentations, a story was concoted about MPRI instructors being in Aracinovo with the ANA. And the only reason it still retains any currency is because of folks like yourself who want to believe are too damned lazy or disinterested to check the facts yourself.

[Banat]

Didn't see your reply. Here's the response:

BBC story 1
BBC story 2
BBC story 3

And here's a summary of all arrests and transfers: FAS

Serbia has jailed/transferred its entire political/military leadership to the Hague. So, yes, Serbia has done more to clean-up its own backyard than all the other sides combined.

[Banat]

EDIT: The last of the three links is actually from Jurist, not the British Broadcasting Corp.

[jw777]

I thought Bill Clinton and Weasly Clarke solved this problem with their incredible "diplomatic" abilities that they seemed to suggest Bush lacks.

[tgambill]

Interesting argument.......but it doesn't make it true unless I see more evidence. I'm not buying it yet. The little bit of trivia that is believeable and consistent, is that the Macedonian forces were closing in..the MPRI guys called for helo support to pull them out before........The MACEDONIAN forces closed in. There are so many lies the Government covered up that I wouldn't take much of anything to heart that is written about the Balkans.

[tgambill]

The Christian Science Monitor????? Hopelite, Ever read Brocks book on How the media lies....absolutely. There is massive deceit and BS from the media sources and one in particular is The Christain Science Monitor. That 17.....were advising the ANA smart guy. Their story about working with the Macedonians, if they did, was only part of their mission. Do you think for one minute that they would report to congress that they advised the ANA as part of their job requirement? This is why they had to be picked up by helo from Bondsteel and taken back there after the Macedonian forces were closing in. You can call it working the "night shift"......

[Hoplite]

The little bit of trivia that is believeable and consistent, is that the Macedonian forces were closing in..the MPRI guys called for helo support to pull them out before........The MACEDONIAN forces closed in.

Believable to you, Tom, and only consistent with the other disinformation circulated about events around Aracinovo in June of 2001.

That 17.....were advising the ANA smart guy.

Is the plan here to simply repeat this lie until it's true? Love the helicopter bit, too. It shows imagination on your part.

[tgambill]

"Love the helicopter bit, too. It shows imagination on your part."

*** So, your daddy tell give you some advice and links of disinformation to keep these people off track? The disinformation market does not exclude you and your kind. I will admit getting Christian Science Monitor to print this twist of MPRI working for the Macedonians. Nice patch or should I say damage control. If it were any other company you might have had me second guessing my sources. Seriously.

The helicopter bit was necessary simply because they ran our of Donkey's...:))) and the Greyhound was not scheduled that day....lolol...What is not funny, however are the consistent lies and I will admit, very clever ways that are being covered up. That's some serious work and deep pockets. Tell yor Daddy's friend, Clark that this effort won't die. And, BTW, ICG is doing their level best to keep those misinformed Americans ignorant of the actual events.

[eleni121]

On right, Kosovar Albanian Muslim Nazir Hodic, a member of the Nazi SS Division Handzar in Bosnia. On left is Rudi Sommemer, the commander of the Nazi SS Albanian Battalion, 6/28 in Handzar. Hodic is shown wearing the Albanian skull cap issued by the SS with a Nazi swastika on his collar. Muslim Albanians like all muslims tend to slouch toward fascism.

[Hoplite]

I will admit getting Christian Science Monitor to print this twist of MPRI working for the Macedonians. Nice patch or should I say damage control. If it were any other company you might have had me second guessing my sources. Seriously.

Second guess the Republic of Macedonia Ministry of Defence's "Defence" Magazine then.

Our work has been significantly assisted by the contribution made by the US team known as the MPRI team, headed by the retired general of the US Army, General Richard Griffiths together with his associates. Among other things, the MPRI team has also developed a G-3 assistance program.

Interview with Major General Metodi Stamboliski, Macedonian Army, April, 2001.

Instead of talking about the Military Academy, general Mitrovski answered other essential issues. For example training of the reserve component, the fruitful and constructive cooperation with the MPRI team, that is consisted of methodic-expert preparation of the officer’s core in coordination with the NATO standards. In connection with that a certain literature was prepared and distributed to the units. Also the NCO courses, Military academy cadet courses, NCOs from infantry. The emphasis is on NCO training. Not lesser attention is paid to the report analyses of the officers who complete their education in military academies in NATO member countries. In the Sector for training development gained experiences are being developed within the frames of the realistic capabilities. We have established a good cooperation with the training command in France, Germany, and we have received valuable donations in books and other materials from USA, Germany, Great Britain and France. From autumn we expect to continue with the process of learning foreign languages that was stooped because of the current situation.

Conversation with Major-general Sokol Mitrovski, Commander of the training command, Macedonian Army, June, 2001.

The disinformation market does not exclude you and your kind.

Yeah, it does. It can't tolerate honesty and integrity - qualities which you are sorely lacking.

You've been played the fool by your Balkan friends Tom.

[tgambill]

"You've been played the fool by your Balkan friends Tom."

Uh, Sport, my "Balkan Friends" were working in Bondsteel and spent 6 months on rotation there. It is absolutely not beyond the realm of possibility that they were working both sides. This is the way it works ole boy. You're not going to get away with the one dimensional thinking, as our motives in the Balkans is a black mark in our strategy. You are either one of those hooked into believing our policy is honorable which it isn't. In Iraq, although I know there is also a bigger picture, I support Bush having us there. We have to deal with the "Sheet heads", as the other side makes it seem that Al Qaeda does not exist. It does and is the fighting arm of a very sinister cult called Islam. The other sinister movement, for lack of a better word are the propoents of the NWO which ironically is the closest ally we have. This is probably more than you can comprehend but they are linked in a struggle.

The Balkans is just another playground, but we instigated that dog fight. We have no business in the Balkans going after the Serbs.....Milosevic, yes, he was an A*&hole, and Mafia figure who was leader of a country. Ceku is absolutely the same. Milosevic authorized or allowed sales of weapons to the KLA, through Mafia channels. The Serbian Mafia for example was doing business as usual with Albanian mafia figures. Ramush and Milorad "Legija" Lukovic fought together in the legion. He was also the man
the government implicated in the assassination of the
Serbian prime minister, Zoran Djindjic. He first helped Djindjic to take down Milosevic. In other words he changed sides...imagine that. He was also a close friend and commrade in arms with Ramush as I said before in their early years. They never lost that friendship or "working" relationship.... on and on,....actually, I'm not writing to you on these posts, I'm writing to those who read it. If you haven't seen the light in over 6-7 years you've been posting you're not now........

Hmmmmmmmmm? MPRI, government contracting company, playing both sides.....imagine that! Why wouldn't they want the Macedonian government to know this.... Of course, this would mean that there was some strategy to keep the fight going in order to further disable the small states......naw, couldn't be....you think? :))

---

http://www.sandline.com/hotlinks/private_armies.html

Christopher Deliso recounted in antiwar.com that Dutch Radio, based on reports leaked by a Dutch military analysis firm, accused the US government of aiding and abetting terrorists in Macedonia. Not for the first time, the Americans were rumored to have hired the services of MPRI (Military Professional Resources, Inc.) to train and assist the rebels of the NLA, the Albanian National Liberation Army, which skirmished for months with the Macedonian police and military throughout last year.

MPRI is a leading Private Military Company (PMC) whose presence was espied in other Balkan trouble spots, such as Croatia, Kosovo, and Bosnia. The absurd is that MPRI has been training the Macedonia army - to little avail it would seem - since 1998 under a "Stability and Deterrence Program".

****The author of this link, I don't necessarily like but he has some very interesting and valid assertions. *****

http://www.unitedmacedonians.org/macedonia/washington.html

---

http://emperors-clothes.com/articles/choss/ploy.htm

The US is once more waging a proxy war using the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA) to fight the Macedonian Armed Forces. While US KFOR troops stationed in Kosovo are not directly involved, American military personnel from Military Professional Resources, Inc (MPRI) (a mercenary outfit on contract to the Pentagon) is advising the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA) and its Macedonian proxy the NLA.1

---

-- CHRIS HEDGES, FOREIGN AFFAIRS: [The KLA inside Kosovo is] "led by the sons and grandsons of rightist Albanian fighters [from the]Skanderbeg volunteer SS division raised by the Nazis, or the descendants of the rightist Albanian kacak rebels who rose up against the Serbs 80 years ago. Although never much of a fighting force, the Skanderbeg division took part in the shameful roundup and deportation of the province’s few hundred Jews during the Holocaust. The division’s remnants fought Tito’s Partisans at the end of the war, leaving thousands of ethnic Albanians dead. The decision by KLA commanders to dress their police in black fatigues and order their fighters to salute with a clenched fist to the forehead has led many to worry about these fascist antecedents."

---

-- On April 8 the Party of Democratic Socialism in Germany, an opponent of the war, issued a report describing an alleged CIA covert operation named "Operation Roots" aimed at sowing ethnic divisions in Yugoslavia to encourage its breakup. The report claimed that this operation has been going on "since the beginning of Clinton's presidency." It was supposedly a joint operation with the German secret service, which also sought to destabilize Yugoslavia. The final objective "is the separation of Kosovo, with the aim of it becoming part of Albania; the separation of Montenegro, as the last means of access to the Mediterranean; and the separation of the Vojvodina, which produces most of the food for Yugoslavia. This would lead to the total collapse of Yugoslavia as a viable independent state." The report also asserts that the KLA was founded by the CIA with funding was funneled through drug-smuggling operations in Europe.

*****More accurate trivia:

US Realize That Independent Kosovo Would Destabilize Whole Balkan
(Glas Javnosti)
President of the Coordination Center for Kosovo and Metohija, Sanda Raskovic-Ivic said, “US administration is aware that independence of Kosovo could destabilize whole Balkan. Raskovic-Ivic said that such solution would cause problems in southern Serbia, northern and eastern Montenegro and northern Greece and in western Macedonia, areas where Albanians are living.



Now, let's recount the facts.....in a short segment:

MPRI training KLA
KLA equals TMK/KPC (Former Albanian Rebels)
KLA equals MEMBERS OF NLA
MPRI TRAINING MACEDONIANS
MPRI ADVISING NLA AS NLA EQUALS KLA.

SIMPLE ENOUGH FOR YOU.......??



An assessment I made officially in 2000-2001.....

Quote:

A quick summation of the groups: This information is obtained through unclassified sources and subject to confirmation through more sophisticated measures.

1. UCPMB - North (Medveda) – Probably still active.

2. UCPMB - Central (Bujanovac + Kamenica) - Rumored to have sent 150 + members to Kumanovo for reinforcement of the “cause”. Now, I consider it to be the Eastern Liberation Army under M. Xhameli.

---

*****NOTE..I MET MOHAMMAND XHAMELI SEVERAL TIMES, WE CONSIDERED OURSELVES FRIENDS AFTER SEVERAL MEETINGS. HE TOLD ME MANY THINGS ABOUT THE WAR AND AFTERWARDS. OUR LAST MEETING I INTRODUCED HIM TO AN AMERICAN CIVPOL INVESTIGATOR WHO MOHAMMAND AGREED TO HELP PUT OTHERS IN THE SYSTEM...USED HIM TO GATHER INTEL ABOUT OTHER UCPMB COMMANDERS THAT WERE IN LINE WITH THE MAFIA. HE DIDN'T LIKE NOR TRUST SHIFKET MESILU AND MANY OTHERS. THE SH*&T HEADS ASSASSINATED HIM ABOUT 2 YEARS AGO OR SO........DRIVE BY SHOOTING. MANY WERE AFRAID OF HIM, ALSO. HE ALWAYS CARRIED THIS .45 BAG (BIG ASS GUN)...AND HAD SOME DANGEROUS COLLEAGUES......

---

3. UCPMB - South (Presevo + Vitina and Gnjilane) termed inactive. It is believed that approximately 300 members went to the Montenegro area following the final closure of the GSZ. Members rumored to belong to PDK.

4. NLA/UQK (National Liberation Army) Blace Border and Tanusevci. It now is comprised of the former ANFI and LAI.

5. FNCI/ANFI (National Front Liberty Ilirida) - Tetova area, and will operate in the Prizren last info obtained. They may have been used to reinforce the Bitola group, LAC/CLA. Now under the title of NLA.

6. UCI/LAI (Ushtria Clirimtare Ilirida or Liberation Army Ilirida) - Will focus on Kumanovo area. Look at the towns of Strug and Dibra. Towns in Macedonia. A group of the LAI are being sent to the Tetova are to reinforce the FNCI group. They are using the Vitina area as a resupply and logistics point. They are also using the villages in Grid EM 3681 along with the refugees. (Letnica, Sasare etc.) They are still part of the NLA.

7. UCGP (Liberation Army of Gusinje and Plav) they operate on the Montenegro side of Kosovo near the Albanian and Montenegro border. They will focus on the Pec area. They have already infiltrated into Kosovo in the Pec area. They are one of the most patriotic groups and are close to the Muslims in Prizren. This could be one of the reasons that the Bosnian Muslims may be split concerning the independence referendum. They are rumored to be well trained and financed. They also have a fair amount of money for support.

8. LAC - (Ushtria Clirimtare E Camera) – Also referred to as the CLA. They are confirmed to be on the border or the northern part of Greece and Western Macedonia close to Bitola. They are an Albanian American Group, who reportedly (unconfirmed) have roots with the Luchessi crime family that is either based or have a large organization in Staten Island, New York. In March 2001, three members was rumored to have departed Staten Island with $500,000 and bound for Macedonia. The alleged smuggling route goes from the US to Naples, Italy, to Bari and Brindisi, Italy. Then the “goods”, (weapons, drugs, money, etc…) go to Durres, Albania or to Bar, Montenegro. There may be other ports that are not known by this writer.

9. Black Eagles - Group of organized thugs, who have been cleansing the area over the past year. Allegedly controlled by “high” ranking members of the AAK. The name was also attached to a formed security guard company that has since been designated illegal. Allegedly, they are used to strong-arm locals and extort money, and other activities.

10. Eye of the Eagle – Just know the name exists. Don’t know yet the details. Unconfirmed information is that they exist.

11. Leopards – Similar to the Black Eagles, but operate in the western part of Kosovo.

12. AL Katana - Group of young thugs that are generally considered thieves and intimidators. Primarily located in Cernica, Gnjilane area. Some members of the UCPMB are also collocated there due to the closing of the borders.

13. TMK - This story is old. “You can take the man out of the KLA, but you can’t take the KLA out of the man.” I know for a fact there are some members of the TMK that are also members of the UCPMB. I also know that members of the TMK carry messages and coordinated action with the UCPMB.

14. KPC – Kosovo Protective Corps. Even though NATO sanctions this group, it is considered to be a legitimate organization made up of former KLA members. Former members have consistently been involved in illegal activities and connected to UCPMB in one form or another. Recently, a former KPC commander resigned, Commander Osdreni (spelling) and joined the NLA in Debar, near Bitola in order to fight for his “homeland”. They have been involved in community activities, moving old cars, repairing buildings etc.

15. Liberation Army of Montenegro - Will locate themselves in the Novo Pazir area of Montenegro. This will probably occur by June and July time frame. The name will eventually surface unless it’s just a subgroup/splinter of the UCGP. I have reason to believe that the PDK group, which split from the UCPMB will make up this group.

16. AKSH – (Armata Kombtare Shqiptare) or ANA (National Albanian Army) They do exist and may have been responsible for the bombing of the Serb bus in Poduevo, killing 11 Serbs. They are responsible for the recent killing of 10 Macedonian soldiers and two Serbian MUP in the Kamenica area.

17. SHIK – Albanian Intel Group. Been in the area since last year and controlled by Fatos Nano. It is believed that this group may work closely with the Serbian Mafia.

18. KSHIK – Kosovo Albanian intel. Group formed by Thaci to link with the SHIK. It was formally called the ZKZ under the KLA.

19. FARK - Bujar Bukoshi, who was the de-facto representative of the Kosovars from 1991 to 1998 This force was formed during the summer of 1998. The members were formed and trained in northern Albania. Members were disappointed by the perceived military failures of the KLA. Kosovar politicians encouraged the formation of the Armed Forces of the Republic of Kosovo (AFRK), known by its Albanian name of Forcave Armatosure e Republikes e Ksovoes (FARK). In April 1999, it was reported that the AFRK was active in the Drenica region. A split reportedly occurred between Hashim Thaci and Bukoshi. Reports continued that the KLA and FARK (AFRK) also carried out joint operations. Due to political differences coordination was frustrating according to reports. The AFRK was allegedly made up of mostly higher-ranking officers and better-trained operators. A commander named Colonel Tahir Zemac disappeared and led people to think that the AFRK had disbanded. It was reported in a recent official report June 8, 2001, that Tahir Zemac, LDK, is back to unite the Albanians and bring back professionalism. He states that he is against the return of the Serbs to the Buffer and finally, to unite against Macedonia. He is also against the building of a wall in the Mitrovica area.

[tgambill]

let's have a party..................

[Hoplite]

Hmmmmmmmmm? MPRI, government contracting company, playing both sides.....imagine that! Why wouldn't they want the Macedonian government to know this.... Of course, this would mean that there was some strategy to keep the fight going in order to further disable the small states......naw, couldn't be....you think? :))

Spare me your pathetic attempts at modifying and perpetuating the lie Tom. MPRI was working with the Macedonian government, as reported by both the US government and the Macedonian Army.

[tgambill]

"Spare me your pathetic attempts at modifying and perpetuating the lie Tom. MPRI was working with the Macedonian government, as reported by both the US government and the Macedonian Army."

**** no attempts are made, the point has been established as you can clearly......opps, I should realize that you don't see clearly. My posts aren't for you anyway. They are for those with knowledge of the situation and comments if they desire. You in fact are doing what you are claiming I'm doing. As in the post with Ma_Bell months ago, you said the Serbs murdered Americans and put them in a mass grave. As consistent to your misinformation, you always fail to tell the whole story. They were Albanian Americans fighting with the Terrorist on Serbian soil. Yes, I agree that the killers should be brought to justice as they are doing now.......and I agree that the locals are trying to protect the police chief, however, the Serbs are making attempts to right this wrong. The point is, you only tell the part that makes your story and BS......

yes, MPRI worked with the Macedonian government, yes it was reported by the U.S. and the MK army. But, you once again fail to report that MPRI also was advising for the NLA until they, (NLA) got stupid and in a world of hurt thus jeopardizing this mission. Hey, Rodchester let's get the whole truth and not just the part that suits your sick brainwashed self......