Mutiny on Flight 613

Daily Mail ^ | August 19, 2006 | CHRISTOPHER LEAKE and ANDREW CHAPMAN

[weegee]

Mutiny? Nay. Democracy; majority opinion.

[nathanbedford]

We are engaged in a multigenerational worldwide asymmetrical war. One of the implications of waging asymmetrical warfare is that the party with the inferior resources changes the rules, so to speak, to compensate for its relative weakness. So we see suicide bombers, provided explosive devices, terror, hiding among civilians, kidnapping and murder. So we also see attacks against and with passenger planes.

As the tactics break the "rules", so does the strategy. Strategy is not to occupy territory but to manipulate populations. And that is done by terror, and economic warfare, not designed to strip the enemy of his ability to make war but to destabilize the economy and manipulate the population. Often, the point of the strategy is that there is really no point to it at all-it is the mindlessness of the terror which is so demoralizing and intimidating and pays such rich dividends to the asymmetrical player.

These insights are not secrets, they've been expressed in these threads many times and they are becoming commonplace among our population. In fact, we see the British people who refuse to fly in this plane acting in appreciation of the fact that they are engaged in asymmetrical warfare. They voted with their feet and their vote reveals that they are not confident that their government has found the strategy or tactics to wage asymmetrical warfare and keep them safe. So they take matters into their own hands.

In Iraq, we see common soldiers and CIA contract operatives taking measures to counter asymmetrical warfare at Abu Ghraib. If the government's account is to be believed, these interrogations were rogue efforts not authorized by the government, so one could say that the interrogators took matters into their own hands to compensate for the asymmetrical nature of the enemy.

Most FReepers understand this to be a world war for the very existence of our democracy so we are prepared to take stern measures to deal with the asymmetrical nature of the war which is being waged against us over the survival of our republic. People on the left, however, do not believe they are fighting a war for the survival of their country, indeed they do not believe they are in a war at all, and they certainly don't believe that the asymmetrical nature of the threat, if there is one, justifies taking unusual measures to compensate for the enemy's asymmetrical methods (others on the left, the truly radicalized left, frankly hope to be able exploit this conflict to bring down the capital's democracies which they detest).

I do not believe we will be able effectively to wage asymmetrical war until we sort out the cultural Marxism which inhibits so many of our countermeasures. Call it political correctness, multiculturalism, or what you will, this cultural Marxism is crippling us and probably will continue to do so until there is another dramatic strike on the homeland-pray that it not be made with weapons of mass destruction.

Eventually the left must lose this argument because the islamo fascists simply must step up the terror if they aim to win this war, and they certainly aim to win this war. So, in the aftermath of the next murderous, asymmetrical attack, the left will be swamped by the indignation and fear which will rise in a giant wave across this country. Besides, there has been no example in the history of warfare in which the defense failed eventually to compensate for innovations in offense. This is inevitable in warfare and it is equally inevitable in asymmetric warfare.

There is also the moral component which is opened against an enemy who resorts to unprovoked, asymmetrical warfare. And this has been alluded to already in this thread: if the Muslim world condones and even succors terrorism, countermeasures will be employed in some way against the Muslim world to compensate. This is an immutable law of war. Just as the innocent and not so innocent civilians of Dresden and Hiroshima payed their forfeit for abiding regimes which broke the rules of war, so will the Muslim world. The people of Lebanon are experiencing that reality now.

The trick is to make the Muslim world more afraid of us than they are of the terrorists in their midst. For years I've been posting that this war will be won only if we can convince the saner moderate elements in the Muslim world that their survival utterly depends on defeating the crazed fundamentalists in their societies. They must come to this conclusion by weighing the costs and benefits of alliances with us or with the terrorists. To some degree, being fastidious with the innocent populations in places like Iraq and Lebanon actually weigh against us. On the other hand both these wars have exposed the great and little Satan to be made up of mere mortals and the Arab Street is not really very intimidated by us anymore, and that is a very bad place for us to be.

[plenipotentiary]

"What is the advocated policy here?"

The problem is that in a Democracy, the current security "policy" does not accurately reflect the wishes of the people.

As always, when governments try to carry out policies that do not have public support, the public take matters into their own hands.

The US and UK don't profile. That is wrong. Political correctness does not come before risk to human life.

The body politic has consistently defined this as a war on "terror". Everyone knows that it is a religious war, and that Islam is the other party. For the Government not to acknowledge this leads to independent action.

There are now two different conversations going on. First a public one that skates around all the issues, and second the private real conversation, where the issue is very clearly defined. That is what happens when the body politic censors free speach.

The lack of free speech leads to parties misunderstanding exactly what their situation is. The Muslims in Europe and the US don't seem to realise that they are standing right on the edge of a precipice, because no-one is publicly saying what is being said privately.

And please don't say "what about all the moderate Muslims". When I see mass protests by Muslims against Saddam Hussain, 9/11, 7/7, Hezbollah, beheadings, the Iranian leadership, I will believe that there is a group of moderate Muslims.

[plenipotentiary]

Middle Eastern people used to be referred to in England as Western Oriental Gentlemen (WOGS), Pakistanis as "Pakis".

"Paki" came to be considered a term of racial abuse, so the media call anyone who is Pakistani, Asian.

[Peach]

Good for those passengers.

If the British and US governments are so PC minded they can't possibly profile, then it will be up to the passengers themselves and that sounds exactly like what they did.

[Gaffer]

For what it's worth and putting in my two cents. What I really think we should do is to "treat all Muslims like smokers." Maybe then, the great, supposedly peaceful Muslim population will start policing their own kooks.

[ketelone]

Yes, youre right. I dont know where they fit in, in the British system. Also, Israelis are middle eastern too, but theyre just a really diverse ethnic bunch. Some of them look like russians, while some look like arabs.

[SauronOfMordor]

What about non-Arab looking Muslims? How do we protect ourselves against them? One of the guys arrested in Britain the other week was a white guy who converted. Another was a West-Indian man who converted. How do we ever protect ourselves against them? Maybe we should make everyone eat a pork chop before boarding?

A jihadi can eat all the pork chops you want to give him. Someone who dies in Jihad is assured passage to Muslim heaven without regard to any sins or behavior. In fact, dying in Jihad is the ONLY assured way to the 72 virgins

There is a group/sect/whatever in Islam, Takfir wal-Hijra. Zawahiri (al-Q's 2nd-in-command) is a member, along with Atta (the leader of the 9/11 attacks). It's doctrine is that Muslims engaging in Jihad are exempt from all rules, can drink, go to strip bars, anything they want, in order to blend in and not appear to be Muslims

[SauronOfMordor]

We have a family event in Boston later this month. We're driving up rather than deal with planes

[razorback-bert]

The trick is to make the Muslim world more afraid of us than they are of the terrorists in their midst.

The choir sings AMEN.

[freedom moose]

I wonder what the FREEPERS who always say Spain is overrun with muslims and practically living under sharia-law will say about this.
I'd like to know more - who the men were, if they were speaking arabic, if they were terrorists, and if this will continue to be reported. I'll keep an eye out in the papers here and update if there's anything interesting.
P.S. Ping Livius

[Non-Sequitur]

This is why terrorist cells can blend into the general public.

Then how do you profile a group that will do anything to blend in?

[humblegunner]

In the U.S. "Asians" are people from the far East such as China, Japan, Korea. In the U.K. "Asians" are from the Middle East and Indian subcontinent, and far Easterners are "Oriental." For some reason it is considered offensive here to refer to a far Easterner as "Oriental."

Thanks, that clears it right up.

I'm glad you clarified things instead of starting a pointless flame war over my obviously logical confusion.

[Slump Tester]

They aren't gonna "police their own". The've had how many years to do it now?

This is a religious war - screw'em ALL!

[george76]

Use the multi choice test anytime.

[livius]

I doubt that they were terrorists, although I do remember that it was determmined that Mohammed Atta spent some time in August, 2001 roaming the Med coast of Spain, and met with other conspirators somewhere not too far from Barcelona. There definitely are a lot of Muslims (or at any rate, people from Muslim countries) in the coastal part of Spain right now, particularly where these people were flying from. Cartagena and parts south look like the Casbah.

Still, I doubt that this specific pair was planning on doing anything other than flying to England, although maybe there was something about their behavior that made the passengers uneasy.

[ABN 505]

"My point is that the problem is Islam, and I think it's going to be very hard to screen on the basis of ethnicity alone, because that doesn't always indicate anything. When the Israelis screen passengers (and El Al screens all its passengers), they do so not only on the basis of national origin, but on the basis of behavior, past travel, contacts in the country, etc."We need to screen out Muslims and the way to it is to serve a delicious pulled pork sandwich to each passenger before boarding, anyone who refuses to eat can't board the plane!

[BigCinBigD]

You take a can of Spam a fork and a .45 auto.

[thinking]

Good morning Ladies and Gentlemen, announcing the departure of Airflop, 666W, this is a preboarding announcement only, will all white Europeans with blue eyes, please proceed to the boarding gate, all others are reminded that Airflop's flight number 666M, is for the exclusive use of followers of the peaceful cult of Islam, and that flight boards at gate 1005, which is located, approximately 3 short miles down wing Z....

[freedom moose]

When the Israelis screen passengers (and El Al screens all its passengers), they do so not only on the basis of national origin, but on the basis of behavior, past travel, contacts in the country, etc.
This is a very important point. When I lived in Israel (until right before Rabin was shot) airport screeners gave everyone the same strict treatment. They didn't care if you were Jewish or not, they didn't care if you knew hebrew or didn't. They screened EVERYONE Israeli or not.
I once got grilled and grilled and grilled, I had a lot of CDs with me and they were suspicious, they didn't care that I said worked in Tower Records and told them everything they wanted to know about it, they even called the store and asked if I worked there (I know they really did, because I asked when I returned). Anyway, they asked me questions asked again and then brought someone else to ask some more. Finally a very young security gaurd came and said "oh tower records...you sell magazines there too right. I said "yes" He said "have you gotten any new ones lately?" odd question. I said "well we get lots of new foreign mags all the time and just got a new Israeli music mag last week" He said "what's it called?" I told him. "well what do you think of it?" odd again. I said "well actually it's pretty lousy" he said "yeah I know my brother writes for the mag, I told him the same thing, have a nice trip mr freedommoose." and that was it......he knew i was telling the truth.
so i didn't write this boring autobiography to bore freepers. I think the Israeli for of airport security is fascinating and effective. THe only thing is, Israel is very small and that's just the way it is there. How could this for of security be put into place in say JFK for example? Another thing is that the screeners there were no BS types, yes i'm sure there were some who were on a power trip, but not the wat some TSA people i've met are. Israeli security seems to do their job out of a sense of pride and necessity not because there's no job available as a rent-a-cop at the moment. Sorry I know all TSA people aren't losers but sometimes it seems like it.