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Pope prepares to embrace theory of intelligent design
Guardian ^ | 08/28/06 | John Hooper

Posted on 08/28/2006 12:02:43 PM PDT by Abathar

Philosophers, scientists and other intellectuals close to Pope Benedict will gather at his summer palace outside Rome this week for intensive discussions that could herald a fundamental shift in the Vatican's view of evolution. There have been growing signs the Pope is considering aligning his church more closely with the theory of "intelligent design" taught in some US states. Advocates of the theory argue that some features of the universe and nature are so complex that they must have been designed by a higher intelligence. Critics say it is a disguise for creationism.

A prominent anti-evolutionist and Roman Catholic scientist, Dominique Tassot, told the US National Catholic Reporter that this week's meeting was "to give a broader extension to the debate. Even if [the Pope] knows where he wants to go, and I believe he does, it will take time. Most Catholic intellectuals today are convinced that evolution is obviously true because most scientists say so." In 1996, in what was seen as a capitulation to scientific orthodoxy, John Paul II said Darwin's theories were "more than a hypothesis". Last week, at a conference in Rimini, Cardinal Christoph Schönborn of Austria revealed that evolution and creation had been chosen as the subjects for this year's meeting of the Pope's Schülerkreis - a group consisting mainly of his former doctoral students that has been gathering annually since the late 1970s. Apart from Cardinal Schönborn, participants at the closed-door meeting will include the president of the Austrian Academy of Sciences, Peter Schuster; the conservative ethical philosopher Robert Spaemann; and Paul Elbrich, professor of philosophy at Munich University.

(Excerpt) Read more at guardian.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: anothercrevothread; benedict; christianmythology; creationmyths; crevolist; enoughalready; epursimuove; mythology; pavlovian; pope; scienceasinagain; superstition; theyneverlearn
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To: RobbyS
"The most examined theory? Hardly. It became the conventional wisom of the time with remarkable speed."?

Malarkey. The "Theory of Evolution" has been under continuous scrutiny ever since it was promulgated. Get your Creationist prejudices out of the way and read some history.

41 posted on 08/28/2006 1:36:39 PM PDT by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel-NRA)
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To: RyanM

Maybe in things. That seems to be the basis of modern science.


42 posted on 08/28/2006 1:37:07 PM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: RobbyS

Who do you mean by "he," and what is the difference between "psychological" and "real" certainty?


43 posted on 08/28/2006 1:39:50 PM PDT by HaveHadEnough
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To: Wonder Warthog

I am a creationist only in that I accept the theological doctrine that the world was created by God. Within fifteen years, Darwinism was the accepted biological wisdom of German biology. Within a generation, most children in German secondary schools were being educated in its tenets.


44 posted on 08/28/2006 1:45:30 PM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: Abathar

TOID?


45 posted on 08/28/2006 1:48:37 PM PDT by DungeonMaster (More and more churches are nada scriptura.)
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To: RobbyS
Within fifteen years, Darwinism was the accepted biological wisdom of German biology. Within a generation, most children in German secondary schools were being educated in its tenets.

Just out of curiosity, do you have a link to a source for that?

46 posted on 08/28/2006 1:50:04 PM PDT by js1138 (Well I say there are some things we don't want to know! Important things!")
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To: HaveHadEnough

"He" was Plato and his idealism was quite different from Kant's. Psychologial certainty is what we feel to be true. Real certainty is what we feel when we step in front of a speeding truck.


47 posted on 08/28/2006 1:50:28 PM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: js1138

If you can get hold of it. My copy has disappeared so I am depending on my memory. I will look for something more accessible. But the title reminds me that pupular acceptace of his theory by the educated public came before acceptance by scientists. One reason was that the age of the world was thought to be only tens of millions of years, certainly not enough time for a trial and error process to work itself out.

The Descent of Darwin: Popularization of Darwinism in Germany, 1860-1914 by Alfred Kelly
Review author[s]: Ruth Rinard
German Quarterly, Vol. 55, No. 1 (Jan., 1982), pp. 133-134
doi:10.2307/405620


48 posted on 08/28/2006 2:04:30 PM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: RobbyS
I betcha that some people are as psychologically certain that there is a God as I am really certain of what happens if I stepped in front of a speeding truck. How do we know that we are only psychologically certain of something and are not really certain of it?

Getting back to Socrates, I am certain that he was more concerned than Kant with establishing that no one possessed absolute truth. His method for establishing that is what led to his death.
49 posted on 08/28/2006 2:07:38 PM PDT by HaveHadEnough
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To: js1138

BTW, Kelly has a web site. You can e-mail him directly and ask him. I may be all wet about his opinion.


50 posted on 08/28/2006 2:20:14 PM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: HaveHadEnough

His whole method was a way of getting at the truth, and please remember that Plato, who put words in Socrates mouth, was the opponent of Isocrates, the sophist. In modern terms, Isocrates was a positivist; Plato was not.


51 posted on 08/28/2006 2:23:42 PM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: Abathar
Most Catholic intellectuals today are convinced that evolution is obviously true because most scientists say so

I'm sure that most Catholic common folk are convinced that God created man and woman.

52 posted on 08/28/2006 2:24:27 PM PDT by taxesareforever (Never forget Matt Maupin)
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To: Abathar

Good.


53 posted on 08/28/2006 2:24:39 PM PDT by Tribune7
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To: taxesareforever

And to be consistent, Catholic intellectuals would have to condition that by saying that evolution seems to be true.


54 posted on 08/28/2006 2:26:21 PM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: siunevada
[Here's a prediction. No definitive pronouncements one way or the other. They'll remain interested observers.]




I agree, they're not going to change their stance. It will remain, "We know that God is the creator of the universe and that's all that's important to us. We'll leave it up to the scientists to debate the boring details."
55 posted on 08/28/2006 4:13:48 PM PDT by spinestein (Please do not make illegal copies of this tagline.)
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To: Abathar

Good for him!!!


56 posted on 08/28/2006 5:09:38 PM PDT by Chi-townChief
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To: RobbyS
"I am a creationist only in that I accept the theological doctrine that the world was created by God."

As is any religious believer---but the point is that any form of creationism IS NOT SCIENCE, and cannot BE science. The question of creation is ultimately a metaphysical one.

"Within fifteen years, Darwinism was the accepted biological wisdom of German biology. Within a generation, most children in German secondary schools were being educated in its tenets."

So?? Actually it was the accepted biological wisdom of ALL BIOLOGY, not just German. I would HOPE that if a scientific discovery of that magnitude were to be made today that "most children in ......secondary schools" would become educated in its tenets "within a generation".

57 posted on 08/28/2006 6:00:31 PM PDT by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel-NRA)
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To: Wonder Warthog

If one takes it that the Resurrection actually took place, then it is as much a fact as that a peach tree bears fruit.


58 posted on 08/28/2006 6:05:13 PM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: RobbyS
"If one takes it that the Resurrection actually took place, then it is as much a fact as that a peach tree bears fruit."

Since I'm a Roman Catholic, I obviously agree. But the point is that such truths are not part of nor provable by science--they are outside the realm of science. You can prove the existence of God by reason (as the Catholic church teaches), but NOT by means of any known scientific test or method. If you come up with one, I guarantee you'll win the Nobel.

59 posted on 08/28/2006 6:10:03 PM PDT by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel-NRA)
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To: Wonder Warthog

Darwin discovered nothing. He was not the first person to posit evolution. What he did propose was a mechanism by which the descendents of certain animals became a different sort of animal. He was not even unique in discerning this and his theory was by no means universally accepted by geologists, who did not see and do not see the fossil record that Darwin predicted. This does not disprove his theory, but only goes to show that
many people lept to a conclusion they found attractive, just as many others dismissed it out of hand.


60 posted on 08/28/2006 6:23:37 PM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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