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To: ansel12
This is an old story where Special Forces soldiers are thrown into battle by short thinking commands, what happens is they fight as regular infantry and die as regular infantry, but then when their special training is needed they aren't available.

This has happened in history, for instance with the Ranger Companies in Korea, or the expenditure of SF recon teams from the Delta Project by the 1st Cav and other conventional units that had them OPCON in 65-66. This latter was largely a failing of the Delta commander, IMHO.

Look at all the ground combat troops that die to save pilots, it is simply because it takes so long, and costs so much to replace the pilot.

I must respectfully disagree with you there. I do not believe that this economic/comparative-advantage argument is really what's behind these actions, even though we have often articulated such a rationale to sell CSAR to Congress and the public. I think it's simpler than that: we have a bond with our fellow Americans. That is especially true in this war, with the satanic, bestial conduct of our enemies. You may recall the extensive efforts to find the two young riflemen who were reportedly captured (actually, killed) in Iraq recently. We didn't do it because of the training we invest in a PFC ammo bearer -- we do it because he's an American and a human being.

For the same reason, you may be sure that American SOF were standing by to rescue the journalists who have been taken captive, regardless of the low opinion we have of them and their profession. It is a human duty to use your skills to protect your own kind -- and like them or not, they are ours.

By the way, CSAR and the more general PR (Personnel Recovery) are by definition SOF missions. However, conventional forces have the flexibility to execute them where able. Would you use your linguists interchangeably with your other troops in a combat situation?

Depends on the situation.

As in all aspects of life you have to use your assets in a wise way, like the article said, it will take two years to supply a replacement for that SEAL.

Soldiers get hurt in wartime (operators get hurt in peacetime, too). It happens and while you take measures to control it, I cannot fault the actions of the slain SEAL, nor of his commander, nor of the conventional force commander who asked the SEALs for help. If you were in any of their shoes, what would you have done differently?

The article itself was written by a marine infantryman.

Yeah, an expert on special operations, since 2004.

Look, if we want to preserve the SEALs for what they do best and that no one else can do as well, we need to get them back in Little Creek and Coronado swimming. Ain't no littorals where they're playing now. Even drinking water has to be shipped in. (And yes, there are actual and potential operational areas in this war where the SEALS' maritime specialities CAN be put to best use). Indeed, after Panama, the then-Commander of the SEALs vowed that they would never again be employed on missions without "a maritime nexus." (Since then, I've crossed paths with them in landlocked Bolivia -- where one died scaling a cathedral spire on a dare, or was that Ecuador? -- and in Afghanistan, 600 nautical miles from the nearest navigable water).

The fact is, we have a non-trivial number of SEALs, and we can cover contingencies, keep SEALs assigned to JSOC for national-level strategic missions, maintain SEAL individual and collective training standards, AND supply SEAL elements to the theater combatant commanders. Would we do better to have more SEALs? Of course we would. And responsible people are working on that, in a responsible way.

This kind of in-the-press whinging is not responsible. It's a junior officer saying his commanders are all soup. That is a typical JO point of view, which will change if and when he ascends to command.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

27 posted on 08/31/2006 1:52:42 PM PDT by Criminal Number 18F (In which article of the Constitution is the Press assigned a role in government? Precisely.)
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To: Criminal Number 18F

"Look at all the ground combat troops that die to save pilots, it is simply because it takes so long, and costs so much to replace the pilot."

"I must respectfully disagree with you there. I do not believe that this economic/comparative-advantage argument is really what's behind these actions,"





I didn't take the time to go through the, every body is just as important thing, because I think everybody interested in the US military knows that, but at least since WWII special efforts and resources are devoted to recovering pilots.

Even in large sloppy wars where soldiers are lost to reasons unknown, downed pilots are tracked and sought more carefully.


28 posted on 08/31/2006 6:36:51 PM PDT by ansel12 (Life is exquisite... of great beauty, keenly felt.)
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