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Lawmakers Want Investigation, Pardon for Border Agents
NS News ^ | 8 Sept. 2006 | Monisha Bansal

Posted on 09/08/2006 10:27:53 AM PDT by radar101

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To: PRND21
Sorry, I was very confused in my disregard for the letter of the law. Jaywalking and hit & run both require severe sanctions.
41 posted on 09/08/2006 11:16:01 AM PDT by zek157
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To: NormsRevenge
If they covered up their crime they should do time.
If they just shot a smuggler in the ass, I'm all for a slap on the wrist.
42 posted on 09/08/2006 11:16:50 AM PDT by PRND21
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To: zek157
Jaywalking, like illegal border crossing, is non-felonious.
Thanks for asking.
43 posted on 09/08/2006 11:17:55 AM PDT by PRND21
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To: zek157; PRND21
Jaywalking and hit & run both require severe sanctions.

The illegal application of deadly force is correctly known as "attempted murder." Am I correct in assuming you favor an amnesty for every attempted murderer currently in the joint?

44 posted on 09/08/2006 11:18:03 AM PDT by BeHoldAPaleHorse ( ~()):~)>)
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To: NormsRevenge

The part I have trouble with, as a former cop, is the alteration of evidence. That action speaks to a consciousness of guilt that argues against granting any form of amnesty.


45 posted on 09/08/2006 11:19:31 AM PDT by BeHoldAPaleHorse ( ~()):~)>)
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To: BeHoldAPaleHorse
Am I correct in assuming you favor an amnesty for every attempted murderer currently in the joint?

Only if they're union members. ;)

46 posted on 09/08/2006 11:19:43 AM PDT by PRND21
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To: PRND21

To say that you are an idiot is to insult idiots. Give these guys medals and maybe some additional target practice so next time they kill the SOB!


47 posted on 09/08/2006 11:26:28 AM PDT by go-dubya-04
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To: go-dubya-04
To say that you are an idiot is to insult idiots. Give these guys medals and maybe some additional target practice so next time they kill the SOB!

What's your take on Waco?

How about Ruby Ridge?

48 posted on 09/08/2006 11:28:05 AM PDT by BeHoldAPaleHorse ( ~()):~)>)
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To: BeHoldAPaleHorse

I understand that part of it, I have to go back and review some of the accounts as I also seem to recall that the perp had turned and the agents thought they saw him reaching for or holding an object (isn't that what most if not they all say?), I could be wrong on that, but I hear ya on the evidence tampering part as well.


49 posted on 09/08/2006 11:33:52 AM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi ......Help the "Pendleton 8' and families -- http://www.freerepublic.com/~normsrevenge/)
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To: BeHoldAPaleHorse

Completely different situations than a drug smuggler entering my country illegally. I think Waco was a law enforcement travesty. I still don't get the problem that they had with the Waco people. Too many guns? What's the deal with that. And, they could have picked him up in town on many occassions. Ruby Ridge was shameful in every possible way.
So, in essence, I do not think that law enforcement is always right but I couldn't care less about this scumbag who gets amnesty for God's sake while he was breaking numerous laws of our country. I will repeat- I wish the killed the SOB!


50 posted on 09/08/2006 11:36:20 AM PDT by go-dubya-04
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To: PRND21
They attempted to cover up their crime. What part of illegal doesn't Tom understand?

What crime? They violated some administrative policies of the BP (not reporting the discharge of a firearm, not getting superviors permission to pursue, etc.), which would at most warrant a suspension. The only evidence the prosecution has for the perp being unarmed is the perp's word. Since he escaped into Mexico, he could easily have ditched the gun. His immunity, plus being peeved that he was shot in the ass, plus his $5 milion lawsuit against the US is a powerful motivator for lying about everything in this case. What I REALLY don't get (among the many many weirdnesses of this case) is how BOTH agents got convicted. Even if you buy the prosecution's argument that the perp was unarmed and didn't deserve to be shot, only one of the agents pulled the trigger.

51 posted on 09/08/2006 11:37:56 AM PDT by John Jorsett (scam never sleeps)
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To: NormsRevenge
I understand that part of it, I have to go back and review some of the accounts as I also seem to recall that the perp had turned and the agents thought they saw him reaching for or holding an object (isn't that what most if not they all say?), I could be wrong on that, but I hear ya on the evidence tampering part as well.

If he'd turned toward them, why did he only get shot in the a$$?

52 posted on 09/08/2006 11:38:26 AM PDT by BeHoldAPaleHorse ( ~()):~)>)
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To: go-dubya-04
Completely different situations than a drug smuggler entering my country illegally.

So, you're OK with cops altering and destroying evidence in a shooting, but only as long as you dislike the person who gets shot.

53 posted on 09/08/2006 11:41:40 AM PDT by BeHoldAPaleHorse ( ~()):~)>)
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To: BeHoldAPaleHorse
Had he not been running back to the boarder he wouldn't have been shot. Using deadly force to stop him from getting back is A OK imho.

As it is neither one of us is ever going to be king for even 5 minutes so it doesn't matter what either one of us think.
54 posted on 09/08/2006 11:45:43 AM PDT by zek157
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To: John Jorsett
What crime? They violated some administrative policies of the BP (not reporting the discharge of a firearm, not getting superviors permission to pursue, etc.), which would at most warrant a suspension.

The application of deadly force was not warranted in this situation. Further, they deliberately attempted to conceal their use of deadly force, and then proceeded to fabricate an account of said use of deadly force that was rather obviously not true. The latter two actions are always considered to show consciousness of guilt, unless the perpetrator(s) can demonstrate that they were not in full command of their faculties at the time of the actions in question.

Attempted murder, concealment and destruction of evidence, and false official statement are all felonies.

only evidence the prosecution has for the perp being unarmed is the perp's word. Since he escaped into Mexico, he could easily have ditched the gun.

OK, let's add another element to their crime: they technically committed an act of war against Mexico without express permission of the United States government.

His immunity, plus being peeved that he was shot in the ass, plus his $5 milion lawsuit against the US is a powerful motivator for lying about everything in this case.

Well, the agents have lied--but you seem to be all right with that. And immunity is not a motivator for falsehood, as there is no penalty for telling the truth if one is immune from the adverse consequences of self-incrimination.

What I REALLY don't get (among the many many weirdnesses of this case) is how BOTH agents got convicted. Even if you buy the prosecution's argument that the perp was unarmed and didn't deserve to be shot, only one of the agents pulled the trigger.

The other agent was an accessory after the fact.

55 posted on 09/08/2006 11:48:51 AM PDT by BeHoldAPaleHorse ( ~()):~)>)
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To: pabianice
"He's a Bush appointee."

It goes well beyond just being a Bush appointee. U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton, Bush and Gonzales go way back. To quote from the U.S. Attorney Website:

"Mr. Sutton served as the Criminal Justice Policy Director for then-Governor George W. Bush from 1995-2000, advising the Governor on all criminal justice issues, with specific oversight in the areas of criminal law, prison capacity and management, parole operations and legislative initiatives."

Based on the direction this thread has taken and the nonsensical rebuttal, I would venture to say that Dane has multiple login names.
56 posted on 09/08/2006 11:48:52 AM PDT by BW2221
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To: BeHoldAPaleHorse

If all they were brought up on was tampering with evidence, I could live with that. But, you seem to think that it's OK to cross our border illegally, not once but twice, flee law enforcement and get amnaesty for it. Meanwhile, IF these guys covered up what they did, that is far worse. Yeah, that makes sense.


57 posted on 09/08/2006 11:48:59 AM PDT by go-dubya-04
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To: zek157
Had he not been running back to the boarder he wouldn't have been shot. Using deadly force to stop him from getting back is A OK imho

The use of deadly force is only legal when it is to prevent the commission of a capital crime such as murder or rape.

58 posted on 09/08/2006 11:50:07 AM PDT by BeHoldAPaleHorse ( ~()):~)>)
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To: BeHoldAPaleHorse

I have an idea - Why not give the border agents immunity to testify against this complete scumbag?!
Your answer to that ought to be quite enlightening.


59 posted on 09/08/2006 11:50:35 AM PDT by go-dubya-04
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To: go-dubya-04
If all they were brought up on was tampering with evidence, I could live with that. But, you seem to think that it's OK to cross our border illegally, not once but twice, flee law enforcement and get amnaesty for it.

The situation did not call for the application of deadly force.

Meanwhile, IF these guys covered up what they did, that is far worse. Yeah, that makes sense.

Attempting to conceal, destroy, or alter evidence of one's actions when employing deadly force has always been considered to show wrongful intent of applying deadly force.

60 posted on 09/08/2006 11:58:21 AM PDT by BeHoldAPaleHorse ( ~()):~)>)
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