I-Team: Military to scrap $32 million worth of planes in Hondo

San Antonio Express-News ^ | 09/12/2006 | Barry Davis

[FreedomCalls]

On Tuesday, the military will start destroying $32 million worth of planes sitting in storage in Hondo.

"We've looked at all the options. This is the best option. This option costs the government no money," said David Smith, communications chief for the Air Education Training Command.

Unless one counts the $60 million taxpayers originally paid for these 110 T3a Firefly planes parked at Hondo. The fleet was left to sit for nine years, after three fatal crashes at the Air Force Academy, despite numerous efforts to buy them.

"We had buyers offshore for the entire fleet, and could have turned them around rather quickly, but that effort was quashed," said Greg Baldasarri, a former T3a Firefly pilot instructor.

Baldasarri said five years ago, he was told selling the planes was too much liability. Now he's being told it would cost too much.

"I don't have the exact numbers, but I was told it was in excess of $100,000 to bring them up to an FAA certifiable point," Smith said.

Baldasarri said the planes would easily sell as is, where is. However, the Air Force said the government's surplus department wouldn't have it.

"They will not accept them if they're not a flyable airplane," Smith said.

The government's surplus department said they don't know anything about the T3a firefly.

Meanwhile, the Air Force is starting a new pilot training program, using an independent contractor — and their planes.

[FreedomCalls]

Surely they could be sold overseas? This seems like an extreme waste.

[Phsstpok]

Two seat pilot trainer

 

[SpaceBar]

Misleading premise. Imagine what the local scrapyard would be worth if they used the original sticker vehicle prices. The concepts of price and value are frequently interchanged at the whim of the media to bolster whatever the point du jour happens to be.

[operation clinton cleanup]

The T-3A is the newest version of Slingsby Aviation's T-67 Firefly line of military training aircraft. The prototype began flying in the summer of 1991, and the Air Force accepted delivery in February 1994. Of the total fleet of 110 T-3s which originally cost $32 million, 57 were stationed with the Air Force Academy's 557th Flying Training Squadron in Colorado Springs, with another 53 with the 3rd Flying Training Squadron in Hondo, Texas. Final assembly of the British-made T-3 was done in Hondo by Northrup Grumman.

The Air Education and Training Command at Randolph AFB announced on 12 October 1999 that the T-3A Firefly would be dropped by the Air Force, after having been grounded for more than two years. In 1998 the Air Force intiated the privately run Introductory Flight Training which uses private flight schools to screen pilot candidates. The success of this program persuaded the Air Force to drop the T-3 from service. The T-3 fleet was grounded in July 1997, following an inexplicable engine failure in Colorado. Three instructors and three students were killed in crashes since the plane went into service in 1994. Two crashes were the result of pilot error, while a third occurred because of a stall condition from which the pilot was unable to recover. The predecessor T-41 had no fatal accidents in 30 years of flight, although the T-41 was incapable of performing the aerobatics and spins that were the hallmark of the T-3. The T-3's engine had failed 66 times at takeoff or landing, and the Air Force grounded 57 of the planes on 10 occasions due to problems with the engines, fuel systems and brakes.

[Sundog]

Give them to the Iraqis as pipeline surveylance planes.

[Past Your Eyes]

What a shame. Seems like they could overcome the liability problem with legal disclaimers of some sort. Ain't that what we pay lawyers for?
I know I would have loved to buy one of the old Jeeps like we had when I was in the National Guard but I was told that they also were sold as scrap because of the rollover problems they supposedly had. Before they sold them, they reportedly ran them all over with some piece of heavy equipment to render them beyond fixing.

[DoughtyOne]

It's only our money. Not to worry.

[Tennessee_Bob]

Before they sold them, they reportedly ran them all over with some piece of heavy equipment

As a matter of fact, we did. We had a deal with a scrapyard that would run them through a crusher before we put them in the DRMO yard.

[Past Your Eyes]

ARRRRGGGGHHHH!

[Tennessee_Bob]

Well, we had to. While you might understand and accept the responsibilities and liabilities that went with a vehicle that would roll over in a strong breeze, there are people out there that, when confronted with warnings like "CAUTION - EXECUTING A TURN IN EITHER DIRECTION AT A SPEED GREATER THAN TWENTY MILES AN HOUR WILL RESULT IN A ROLLOVER AND YOUR GRISLY DEATH" will get up there and say "hold mah beer and watch this!"

[ryan71]

Why is everybody eatin' up with a bad case of dumb ass?

[expatpat]

They would sell like hot cakes if sold "as is" and each buyer signed an agreement that the planes were not to be used for flight.

[Jet Jaguar]

Give one to me. I can fix it and sell it.

Don't just scrap them.

[Jet Jaguar]

--X--

Ping.

[FreedomCalls]

They (the M38A1s) were just stripped-down Jeep CJ-5s weren't they? Why would their rollover potential be higher than the civilian counterpart?

[Veloxherc]

There were some problems with the T-3. It is my understanding that the original T-67 that this plane was based off of had a 4 cylinders engine and the T-3 was changed to a 6 cylinders for more power. The higher power was because the Air Force Academy is at about 6000 feet in elevation.

The problems came from the fuel system that was NOT upgraded with the change to the 6.

I am sure there is someone out there with more and better info than I.

[Tennessee_Bob]

Why would their rollover potential be higher than the civilian counterpart?

No clue as to why, all I know is we crushed them before they would go to DRMO.  Trucks and cars were another story, they were de-mil'd and then put in the yard.
 

[Past Your Eyes]

I know you had to do what you had to do. But they were a great vehicle. I've driven them in convoys and all kinds of field conditions and never even came close to rolling one. When ours were replaced with Blazers, I longed for the Jeep when in the field because it rode a helluva lot better than that stinkin Blazer did.

[kms61]

so the Air Force is outsourcing its pilot training now? In my mind that's taking things several steps too far.

[Mind-numbed Robot]

so the Air Force is outsourcing its pilot training now? In my mind that's taking things several steps too far.

Yep, it is all going to China and India. The pilots come back through WalMart. :-)

The flight schools are screening pilots to see who is capable of advancing and who isn't. Then the AF takes back over.