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To: ancient_geezer
Nobody is removing freedom of speech from these organization's. They are just removed from ability for people to deduct their contributions to them as tax right offs. The organization's can say what they want, and people can give what they want, but it will no longer be a write off.

Now your point about a national sales tax, that would eliminate tax write offs, which would eliminate some of the control the government has on what people can say or do. So I figure that true tax reform will never really happen until the government figures out a way to hold tax revenues over peoples heads.

As an aside. For a person who lives their life by what the Bible says, and votes by their convictions, its impossible for them to seperate politics and religion. If ALL churches didn't have a tax exempt status, that the money given wasn't a write off, then preaching the Bible against "political" issues wouldn't be a problem. But I guess its more important for people to have a write off, versus hearing the Word of God convict them on society or politics.

37 posted on 09/16/2006 12:18:26 PM PDT by mountn man (The pleasure you get from life, is equal to the attitude you put into it.)
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To: mountn man

Now your point about a national sales tax, that would eliminate tax write offs, which would eliminate some of the control the government has on what people can say or do. So I figure that true tax reform will never really happen until the government figures out a way to hold tax revenues over peoples heads.

Guaranteed it won't happen if we don't place their ability to exercise power at risk by voting those out of office that refuse to make the necessary changes.

OTOH, one can be assured:

The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance; which condition if he break, servitude is at once the consequence of his crime and the punishment of his guilt."
-John Philpot Curran: Speech upon the Right of Election, 1790.

we bring upon ourselves that which is appropriate to our lack of exercise of responsibility as an American citizen.

38 posted on 09/16/2006 4:09:23 PM PDT by ancient_geezer (Don't reform it, Replace it.)
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To: mountn man

Nobody is removing freedom of speech from these organization's.

Removal is not the criteria.

Even passing a law that is merely an attempt in reduction scope of one's right to exercise free speech is prohibited under the first Amendment, whether that right be exercised individually or in peaceful assembly of individuals in an organization.

Note the language of that 1st Amendment and its usage

abridge
Pronunciation: &-'brij
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): abridged; abridg·ing
Etymology: Middle English abregen, from Anglo-French abreger, from Late Latin abbreviare, from Latin ad- + brevis short -- more at BRIEF
1 a archaic : DEPRIVE b : to reduce in scope : DIMINISH <attempts to abridge the right of free speech>

 

And the clear prohibition against making any law in that regard:

Amendment I, Constitution of the United States:
"Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, "

 

to step beyond that express prohibition by even the least represents a grave violation of the provisions of the Constitution and Bill of Rights:

"I consider the foundation of the Constitution as laid on this ground; That `all powers not delegated to the United States, by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States or to the people.' To take a single step beyond the boundaries thus specifically drawn around the powers of Congress is to take possession of a boundless field of power, no longer susceptible of any definition."
Thomas Jefferson: Opinion, February 15, 1791


40 posted on 09/16/2006 5:32:03 PM PDT by ancient_geezer (Don't reform it, Replace it.)
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