They don't deserve it, it would change nothing, and when has anyone in the Muslim world ever apologized for anything.
W.
Posted on 09/15/2006 10:57:43 PM PDT by Pyro7480
The whole Pope Flap shows who really insults Islam. When have we ever seen the headline, "Osama fears for his safety after hijacking Islam"? When have we ever seen angry Muslim protestors burning images of Osama, instead of brandishing them for the cameras?
But when the Pope suggests Islam is violent, Islam becomes...violent. Here a question for you Moral Equivalence fans: Have you noticed that "radical Christians," although just insulted by Rosie O'Donnell, are not rioting or threatening anyone's life?
From the Hizballah News Agency, aka Reuters:
VATICAN CITY (Reuters) -- The Muslim world's scathing reaction to Pope Benedict's comments on Islam is the biggest challenge to face the pontiff yet and raises concerns over his security, diplomatic and Church sources said on Friday.
"My personal reaction was: 'This is a striking statement. Was it a rare slip-up?'" one source said about the pope's speech in Germany last Tuesday.
"One has to wonder why the pope, who is normally so careful about what he says or writes, and has a reputation for extreme care, did not realize the reaction that this could cause," the source added....
Maybe he realized it full well, and was trying to argue for the futility of violent reactions such as we are now seeing.
"I was quite surprised (by the speech)," one diplomat said. "He has put himself in a tough spot and it will be interesting to see what he does next."
Indeed it will. Let's hope he has the courage to keep telling the truth.
A growing chorus of Muslim leaders have called on the pope to apologize. Muslim scholars say his comments show little understanding of Islam and some say Islamic countries should threaten to break off relations with the Vatican.
One high-ranking Church source also also expressed fears for the pope's safety.
"While I think the controversy will go away, it has done damage and if I were a security expert I'd be worried," he said.
At least one Muslim leader, Syed Ahmed Bukhari, the chief cleric of New Delhi's historic Jama Masjid, India's largest mosque, extolled Muslims to "respond in a manner which forces the pope to apologize." He did not elaborate.
Oh, I think it's abundantly clear what he means.
Agreed. They're going after him as the representative of all Christianity, even though some would object to that. Christians see the differences but to muslims; I don't think they see that. They hate Christianity and since he is the most visible and well known representative of it, they are directly their anger mostly at him. But what they are directing at him, is in effect what they are directing towards all Christians and so I also think we should take that stand.
LOL! Much too close for comfort.
I've seen him referred to as the top cleric in Christianity in an Islamic response, so I completely agree with you.
They can't think out of the box, can they? Sheesh.
ROTFLOL! Great photoshop, RW.
Thank you for pinging on this.
No need to add me to the ping list...I faithfully read Robert Spencer's columns.
To repeat what I said in Post# 94: If Pope Benedict takes what I called "Option One" he will have to "clear, unambiguous apology, distancing himself from what he said about jihad on Tuesday."
[emphasis added]
As Benedict was speaking about the "Logos," the "Word," who is Christ in a formal lecture, I can't believe how he could totally repudiate all that he said.
To repeat what I said in Post# 94: If Pope Benedict takes what I called "Option One" he will have to offer a "clear, unambiguous apology, distancing himself from what he said about jihad on Tuesday."
[emphasis added]
Dajjal...I know you have bravely spoken the truth.
Let's stand behind the Pope. He has thrust his spear deeply into the pig (islam)...his words have not and cannot withdraw the damage.
I suggest the Pope knew what he was doing...and he has only issued a "non-apology."
He is sorry the islamics have taken such offense...he is sorry the truth is so painful.
I suggest the Pope knows better than any of us the wages of Nazism and Fascism. He needs our support. (I am not Catholic BTW...but I believe in the inerrant judgement of God in choosing BenedictXVI.)
Robert Spencer nails it! Excellent. Pyro, please add me to your Rober Spencer ping list. Thanks!
"Muslims NEVER have to apologize for aggression against the non-Muslim world or treating non-Muslims in Islamic countries as little better than slaves. Their violent reaction to a mere difference of opinion reveals the soul of Islam is profoundly sick."
Exactly, goldstategop!
Ping! While you may not be Catholic, I believe this affects all Christians, whether Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, or Protestant.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1703679/posts
The discussion is framed like it or not...
Pope Benedict has been an opponent of Bush, Blair & our allies in the War on Terror. He opposed Israel's strike against Hizb'ullah. He has encouraged Muslim immigration into Europe. He sided with the Muslim mobs against the Danish cartoonists. He has said that retaliation against terrorism cannot be justified. He has made the blanket statement that "War ... brings nothing of good for anyone."
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1700508/posts?page=5#5
It has been my opinion this past week that as a pacifist, the Pope's main point in his digression last Tuesday was that "Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul." That means that both Bin Laden and Bush are wrong.
Yes, he is opposed to the jihadists' use of violence, but he is likewise against the Allies' use of force against the jihadists. He is an aging 60s liberal who wants everyone to sit down and talk through their differences.
To put it in terms of the Square of Opposition in Aristotelian Logic:
"The emperor goes on to explain in detail the reasons why spreading the faith through violence is something unreasonable."
is a particular statement.
Whereas
"Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul."
is a universal statement.
His Holiness said much more than that "forced conversion is wrong." He also said that all defensive violence is wrong, and all punitive violence is wrong. Whether he intended to mean that, or whether he was just careless with his words, I leave to your judgment.
It's a stupid wolf who thinks someone is throwing stones at it when they aren't.
82 posted on 09/17/2006 by Old Student
No disagreement from me.
Really, dajjal, you can't hold the Pope responsible for the actions of irrational barbarians. Each of them has a free will.... He did not set out to inflame the Muslim masses (although, I believe the MSM did so deliberately).... They reacted to a part of his lecture that was taken out of context.
83 posted on 09/17/2006 by ELS
I hold His Holiness responsible only for the Vatican's reaction to the Muslim outcry and Muslim violence against churches, schools, etc., and the murdered nun.
Pope Benedict did nothing on Wednesday, when the protests began. He might have nipped the violence in the bud by offering even a few half-hearted words.
On Thursday the Vatican sent out a Jesuit press spokesperson to say that the Pope respects Islam and wants to cultivate a "dialogue" with Islam.
Not suprpisingly, the Muslim anger continued to boil, putting Catholics around the world at great risk.
It should be well known to everyone that in these situations, sending out a "spokesperson" is never a good idea. The aggrieved party always takes the presence of a "spokesperson" as an insult. Didn't they watch the Mel Gibson brouhaha on CNN at the Vatican?
On Friday, the Vatican did a big N O T H I N G as the mobs shouted death threats and burned the Pope in effigy. At least one Catholic school was attacked, in India.
On Saturday, the Vatican Secretary of State issued a statement saying 1) that the Pope did not agree "in any way" with the quotation of Byzantine Emperor Manuel II Paleologos he had cited, 2) that the Pope affirmed the statement of Vatican II that Catholics and Muslims adore the same God, 3) that the Pope believes in "inter-religious and inter-cultural dialogue" with Muslims, and 4) that Muslims should not interpret his words of Tuesday to be offensive.
But there still were not the "magic words, I'm sorry" and there's still the problem of the press release being read by a spokesperson. Not surprisingly at all, the violence escalated, several churches were attacked and firebombed, and a nun got murdered.
On Sunday, he finally appeared and affirmed that he does not agree "in any way" with the words he quoted from the Byzantine Emperor.
Some of the Muslim leaders accepted that as sufficient. Others insist that he make a stronger statement.
Not that they need much of an excuse to attack non-Muslims. But to the extent that the lives and safety of Catholics, Protestants and Orthodox -- scattered throughout the globe near "offended" Muslim mobs -- needed to rely on His Holiness to aleviating the tensions, the delay until Sunday placed and/or continues to place them in jeopardy.
I personally have no doubt that he will eventually issue a carefully worded apology which will be formally accepted by all the Muslim leaders except the most radical al-Qaeda types, and that the immediate situation will cool down. So I hope he does that quickly, before more people get hurt.
Do you have any loyalty to this Pope at all?
94 posted on 09/18/2006 by sandyeggo
When he speaks infallibly on matters of Faith and Morals: Yes.
When he voices his opinions on geo-political conflicts, I have to judge when I think he is correctly assessing the situations.
Let me clarify exactly the sort of thing I am thinking of, so there will be no doubts as to my meaning. Let me pretend to be Pope Benedict's speechwriter. This is the text I would offer him to read on international television:
"I am sorry when, last Tuesday at Regensburg, I characterized 'jihad' simply as 'spreading the faith through violence.'
"As a sholar, of course I understand that this is not the Islamic definition of 'jihad' or 'struggle.' Muslim teachers describe six types of jihad:
the jihad of the heart or soul -- the struggle to follow one's conscience and always do what is right
the jihad of the tongue -- such as a sermon
the jihad of the pen and knowledge -- such as a pious book
the jihad of the hand -- such as giving charity to the needy
the jihad of the sword -- such as defending one's nation from attack,
and the jihad of peace -- to strive to bring peace to all mankind.
"My comments, and my citing the views of Byzantine Emperor Manuel II Paleologus, were, of course, colored by my own European-Christian point-of-view.
"But I trust we all can agree with the Koran's Sura 2:256, which I also cited, that there should be 'no compulsion in religion.'
"Any attempt to spread a faith through violence contradicts both faith and reason. This was the point I was making in Regensburg. I apologize for any misunderstanding.
"Regarding the Byzantine Emperor Manuel II Paleologus, I was citing him by way of example on that specific point. I will not say that I agree with him completely on all matters.
"As a firm believer in the Second Vatican Council's document 'Nostra Aetate,' I welcome interreligious and intercultural dialogue with members of the Islamic faith.
"I ask everyone to keep cool heads, that we may all work together for peace.
"May God bless you all."
Such a speech would incorporate an unambiguous "I'm sorry" which the Muslim leaders were asking for, would deal with their complaint that the Pope was "mischaracterizing" their religion, would distance himself even less from the Emperor than His Holiness did in fact on Saturday and Sunday, and would include the bit about "dialogue" which is so dear to him.
As I understand the clerics' complaints, all but the most extreme would have to accept it, and the situation would (I hope) be defused, both for the Pope, and for Catholics and other Christians living in Muslim neighborhoods around the world.
Anyway, that is the sort of thing I have had in mind
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