Arab Op-ed: Pope’s Remarks May Lead to War(The sooner, the better)

ynetnews.com ^ | 9/16/2006 | Roee Nahmias

[kellynla]

The recent remarks made by Pope Benedict XVI on Islam are threatening to ignite the entire Muslim world.

Op-Eds published in the Arab newspapers slammed the pope even after the Vatican’s apology.

The most extreme opinion was voiced by Hani Pahas in the London-based Arabic-language daily newspaper Al-Hayat, who wrote “the pope’s comments may lead to war; we fear that the pope’s statements may lead to a war that we, Muslims and Christians alike, are trying to prevent through dialogue between East and West.

Hussein Shabakshy wrote in an article published by the London-based Arabic-language newspaper al-Sharq al-Awsat “It is clear that such remarks only contribute to the fueling of the fire raging between Islam and the West. There is no difference between Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri speaking from their caves in Tora Bora and the stage of an important Christian saint. Both parties contribute to the world verbal weapons for mass destruction.”

“The pope’s latest statement cannot be considered a slip of the tongue or a comic bit from a TV show; the situatio0n here is different, and his remarks are indicative of an important and highly symbolic stance toward the religion (Islam) and the prophet of about a billion and-a-half Muslims,” he said.

“These are ignorant comments previously made by Adolf Hitler, who spoke of a supreme white race against all the other races, especially the African race.

Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood said a Vatican statement on Saturday saying Pope Benedict was sorry for upsetting Muslims with his comments on Islam did not go far enough.

"We want a personal apology (from the Pope). We feel that he has committed a grave error against us and that this mistake will only be removed through a personal apology," Muslim Brotherhood Deputy Leader Mohammed Habib told Reuters.

[kellynla]

ping

[JLS]

I agree with your prenthetical remark. Better now before Iran has a nuke.

[reluctantwarrior]

Iwant an apology for Nick Berg and the Blackwater contractors, and the 2800 dead and 20,000 wounded. I want war now while I'm able to fight, and before my daughters must.

[madprof98]

You understand that if these remarks led to war, only the Swiss Guard would be out there fighting it. The elites in this country would line up behind the elites of Europe to surrender ASAP.

[pillut48]

I'm not Catholic, but God bless the Pope and keep him safe from the Islamofascist fanatics!! They have been looking for any excuse to riot since the Mohammed cartoons fiasco, and I'm afraid this might be it. I hate that he even apologized (or his representatives did, not sure)--he should have stuck to his guns on his opinions that radical Islamic jihad is a bad thing!

[monkapotamus]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1702824/posts

[kellynla]

You don't many Catholics do you. LOL

[kellynla]

make that "You don't know many Catholics do you."

[FarRockaway]

Of course we must return to the original statements if we are going to find the truth about the furor. The Pope, in his comments which have given mobs of people looking for an excuse to rage…excuse to rage, said things which haven’t been widely published by the press and which are, no doubt, the real cause of the difficulty. While the press has zeroed in on The Pope quoting a Christian emperor under the stress of a Muslim siege of Constantinople, those words may actually be far less a difficulty to Islam than a larger idea which cannot be expressed in just a few words.

The idea which the Pope points out in his text is that, according to Islamist scholars, Allah is not bound by his word whereas the Christian understanding of God certainly is bound by His Word. Quoting from Muslim scholars the Pope clearly establishes that Muslim belief holds that Allah is above all things, even the very words of Allah himself. Anything that Allah may say, written or spoken, can, according to Muslim belief, be overturned by a later utterance. Further, Allah may choose, according to Islamic belief, to mislead man.

The Pope contrasts this with Christian belief which holds that anything God says or writes is something He will stand by no matter what. Christian belief holds that God chooses to be bound by His Word and is utterly faithful to his own statements with absolute perfection. Hence, reason may proceed from the statements of God where those statmeents are held as axioms. The Christian religion becomes testable and verifyable due to the reliability of things told to man.

The general idea working its way through the Pope’s argument is that coercive force and raging threats of violence are not necessary to convert someone to a religion which is presented in reason, with thoughtful attention to good supporting information. But it is noticeable that Islam, if it is as is represented by the quoted scholars, cannot be dealt with via rigorous reasoning capacity because the very statements of its doctrines, they being assumed to be from God, cannot be known to any certainty because the doctrines themselves insist that God can and does utterly change his word without telling you, or if desired, with telling you. And so there cannot be reasoned conclusions from axioms which are suddenly fungible. As a result the path to knowledge under Islamist thought cannot hold to a strict logic the way logical arguement is held in Christianity or Western thought.

The article of difficulty which makes the Pope’s speech perhaps so problematic to accept is that this presents a crisis to Islam and a potential explanation for the pervasive violence we see perpetrated in the name of that religion today. If an open and reasonable people cannot rationally calculate their way to Islam’s conclusions along the path of its axioms, due to the abrogation or changes in the doctrinal utterances which are institutional and frequent, then what methods remain open in order to win over converts? The inference is that many Islamists choose violence because their positions do not allow them to win over people by reason, by logic referencing doctrines, or by rhetorical practice in structured argument.

This would appear to the be the deep problem which cannot be mentioned. The reaction – open violence and threats thereof – would appear not to refute the point. The logic and the reaction place a burden on the thoughtful Muslim scholar to assemble a response which is both cogent and peaceful. But if the headlines are dominanted by riots, are we to expect a forthcoming thoughtful argument?

[Earthdweller]

"Arab Op-ed: Pope’s Remarks May Lead to War(The sooner, the better)"

Oh give me a break.

[chuckr]

The only thing these Muslims want is war and the western countries should give them war...NUCLEAR WAR....finish them before they do the same to us.....let them try to sell radioactive oil! And the rest of the world will be the better for it....look at how China pollutes their cities and the citizens suffer from lung disease....all in the name of more growth.....the world will make due without Muslim oil....

[claudiustg]

---"We want a personal apology (from the Pope). We feel that he has committed a grave error against us and that this mistake will only be removed through a personal apology," Muslim Brotherhood Deputy Leader Mohammed Habib told Reuters.---

Why should anyone apologize to someone whose mother smells like pig urine?

[doc1019]

And there is a downside to this?

[netmilsmom]

They take out the Pope, all bets are off.

[SkyPilot]

The West and Islam are already at war.

Only Britain, Australia, Israel, and the United States have recognized this fact.

Canada, Spain, France, Germany, and the EU pretend it isn't a war. The UN is full of tin horn dictatorships (many of them Muslim) who work against the West.

I would prefer a war that we fight on the battlefield with these Islamic cowards - but they prefer beheading people who are bound hand and foot and have been tortured with power drills first. Or they will blow up women and children in a marketplace.

Islamic cowards cannot fight on the battlefield - that takes too much courage.

[Partisan Hack]

Look for more than an apology tomorrow. I predict an appearance with the Pope and a prominent Imam. This thing will be over by Monday morning....

Nothing here guys....move on.

[butternut_squash_bisque]

Ditto here, *that*, r. I got your back....

[madprof98]

john kerry, ted kennedy, joe biden . . . my lord, even bill keller!

[butternut_squash_bisque]

Ding, ding, ding, ding... we have The All-Time Winner!. right here FR.com!

[glorgau]

Fine, lets play cowboys and Muslims.

[Thombo2]

"The sooner the better."I agree.They're only going to get stronger,the longer we wait.

[ladyinred]

LOL! You understand that the world is already at war with Islam. I would think they knew that themselves!

[taxesareforever]

Bring it on!

[Hound of the Baskervilles]

Dood! That was an excellent post.

[SpaceBar]

Is that Slim Pickens?

[kromike]

You know, at this point:

1) it really doesn't matter whether the Pope personally apologizes or not.
2) it wouldn't matter if the Pope kissed the Koran as a sign of further dhimmitude.
3) it wouldn't matter if the Pope told Western Civilization to ask for forgiveness from these pigs.
4) it wouldn't matter if the Pope converted to Islam.
5) and it wouldn't matter if the Pope cut off his own head.

These sun-baked crazies have a 1,000 year-old chip on their collective shoulders and they're itching with madness for an excuse.

We're well past the point of apologies with these 2-year-olds. I say, turn on the firehose and just effing drown these bastards with public insults. MORE cartoons, MORE telling-it-like-it is.

Hopefully, these nutjobs will just go so insane with impotent rage that they'll either completely slaughter each other in riots (more than they already do now), or they'll simply drop dead from burst blood vessels.

I am absolutely sick of our elected leaders pussyfooting around these idiots. Drop leaflets on these bozos with a picture of Uncle Sam giving them the middle finger.

[Mr Ramsbotham]

Is there any doubt what these animals will do if they get the chance? The only difference between the '93 WTC attack and the '01 attack was that the '01 attack succeeded. What will be the difference between the '01 attack and the next one?

[uncbob]

All this BS in the world is the result of

1. Liberals controlling the world's media

2. Lack of a united front between the USA and Europe

3. Lack of complete unity in the USA

All the problems are INTERNAL to the western nationals

Muslims are nothing but backward pathetic nothings

If the west was united in spirit the muslims would be a big nothing as far as a threat . United military action in Iraq Afganistan and Iran would have ended this years ago

But they sense the west's internal weakness and that is what keeps them going

[Cringing Negativism Network]

All conservatives, Republicans and Americans should start saying the following words. Firmly, and without hesitation:

NO I will not apologize.

There. See how easy that is.

NO I will not apologize.

Simple as that.

[Lesforlife]

Most excellent analytic thinking!

[onedoug]

Okay.

[knarf]

You're covered, bro ...

" I want war now while I'm able to fight, and before my daughters must."

[reluctantwarrior]

I'm a reserve Lt Colonel, but I'm starting to show my age (44) so if it is going to go loud I want it now. My girls are 13 and 9 and I want them to be free from fear of the Islmaic nutjobs.

[Pharmboy]

I do not think there ever has been a time in world history when Catholics, Jews and Protestants have stood together against a common enemy. We can't lose...

[goldstategop]

Of course we'll waiting til Godot for Islam to apologize for its manifold transgressions against the moral order.

(No more Olmert! No more Kadima! No more Oslo! )

[bboop]

Maybe it's time to give them what they are ITCHING for.

[bboop]

It wasn't an apology, tho. He said he was sorry his remarks offended them or something. I love this Pope, and I sure am praying for his safety. Because assassination is one of their 'things' and if he were assassinated, there'd be a lot of really MAD people.

[arthurus]

May LEAD to war??? The War is on. Right now the worse the saracens can make it the sooner the West will get serious about it and finish it up the way it has to be.

[bboop]

That is a great idea. Every day, some prominent person who can get in the news says the Truth about Islam. They will jump-up-and-down to DEATH. And we will be sane, because we will be speaking the truth.

[Dutch Boy]

They sure do seem to be asking for it don't they.....

Iran wants the bomb.... Israel has the bomb.... Israel should share. When the mushroom cload clears the middle east just might be a little safer for a few years.

[sgtbono2002]

IMO you are 100% correct.

These people listen to the news and they hear the democrats attacking America an they grow fat on the ignorance of the democrat party.

[fight_truth_decay]

Qur'an:

5.32 . For that cause We decreed for the Children of Israel that whosoever killeth a human being for other than man slaughter or corruption in the earth , it shall be as if be had killed all mankind , and whoso saveth the life of one , it shall be as if he had : saved the life of all mankind . Our messengers came unto them of old with clear proofs ( of Allah ' s sovereignty ) , but afterwards lo! many of them became prodigals in the earth .

5.33 . The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified , or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off , or will be expelled out of the land . Such will be their degradation in the world , and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom ;

5.34 . Save those who repent before ye overpower them . For know that Allah is Forgiving , Merciful .

5.40 . Knowest thou not that unto Allah belongeth the Sovereignty of the heavens and the earth? He punisheth whom He will , and forgiveth whom He will . Allah is Able to do all things .

Apology from the Vatican: Allah would be forgiving and merciful so indicated in the teachings within the Peaceful "Glorious" Qur'an.

Most interesting is Bill Clinton is mentioned in this October 1998 Invitation to Islam:

"Whilst claiming that Sudan and Afghanistan were havens for Islamic terrorists, the bombings of these two nations could not have come at a better time for the American president Bill Clinton. The destruction of innocent lives which were a result of these bombings clearly seem to have been an attempt by Clinton to avert attention away from his sexual misdemeanours; [ [4] something which he so often gets caught up in. Without doubt this was the reason for such terror from the American military upon innocent people. This is the same American military which claims to enter the worlds trouble spots under the guise of being peace keepers. But.."

"… when it is said to them; 'Make not mischief on the Earth', they say; 'We are only peace makers'. Indeed they are the ones who make mischief, but they perceive it not" (Surah Al-Baqarah 2:11-12)

[ClaireSolt]

The Pope has said that Islam and christianty are not compatible. We can talk and talk and talk, but unless they are reasonable there is no firm, basis to negotiate. They are definately unreasonable.

[arthurus]

God is not bound by his Word in that he cant choose to recant.But that presupposes that God is limited by time as the Mohammedans believe Allah to be. To God Time is not serial so if He says He will do something then He says it in and to past present and future. Allah, being bound by serial time can change his mind as he sees how things develop. That is much too limited a concept of the Deity for Christians.

[Pharmboy]

They want to kill anyone who isn't a muzzie. We must kill them first...end of story.

[goodnesswins]

"Lead" to war?.......WE ARE ALREADY AT WAR.....with Them, the Terrorists!

[kromike]

The (Freedom of Speech's) Word is mightier than the Sword (of Islam)...

[MaDeuce]

The Pope should call for a new Crusade ... a final one.

[thestob]

we have to kill them now or we have to kill them later ...I'd rather do it than leave up to my kids