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Retired officers to criticize Rumsfeld
Reuters ^ | DAVID ESPO

Posted on 09/25/2006 5:33:32 AM PDT by TexKat

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To: rhombus
I understand them "speaking out" but from this article it is hard to nail down anything specific beyond a few vague comments out of context.

Then maybe some posters shouldn't be so quick to condemn them?

About the only people I've ever known who thought that Rumsfeld was a genius are on FR and have never been deployed to support OIF/OEF.

Does that tell you something?

41 posted on 09/25/2006 6:09:00 AM PDT by Eagle Eye (There ought to be a law against excess legislation.)
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To: TexKat

I suppose the Administration and Pubs are just going to sit on their hands and take this crap in the name of "taking the high road". Enough of this B.S.


42 posted on 09/25/2006 6:09:20 AM PDT by SMM48
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To: Eagle Eye
About the only people I've ever known who thought that Rumsfeld was a genius are on FR and have never been deployed to support OIF/OEF. Does that tell you something?

No, it really doesn't tell me a thing. Being the SecDef involves a whole lot more than trying to micro-manage particular theaters. In fact the complaints don't seem to be that he micromanaged. If thousands died on the beach at Normandy (which they did), I wouldn't expect Roosevelt's Secretaries of the Army and Navy to take the heat but instead Eisenhour.

43 posted on 09/25/2006 6:16:41 AM PDT by rhombus
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To: Non-Sequitur
Did the Democrats take back the Senate when I wasn't looking. Dorgan should be the ranking minority member if anything.

Ah, but this isn't a "real" committee hearing, but a session conducted by "the Senate Democratic Policy Committee."

44 posted on 09/25/2006 6:17:34 AM PDT by Mike Bates (Irish Alzheimer's victim: I only remember the grudges.)
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To: Made in USA

LOL...it was easy to see Rumsfelds mistakes in planning and policy early on.

And if it is true that Rumsfeld refused to allow occupation planning, then he should be fired for that.

Personally, I believe he made those threats.

I guess I don't drink enough FR koolaid!


45 posted on 09/25/2006 6:19:04 AM PDT by Eagle Eye (There ought to be a law against excess legislation.)
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To: TexKat

How many of these LEFTY generals are there? The military, at any one time, has about 1000 admirals and generals on active duty. Every year many of these retire, and more are appointed.

Therefore, I'd bet there are at least 5000 generals and admirals who served under Bush and who are now retired.

I'd bet that better than 4500 of these 5000 support the President.


46 posted on 09/25/2006 6:19:40 AM PDT by carrier-aviator
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To: The Great RJ
The reason why needed equipment like armored humvees weren't available in Iraq has a lot to do with Clinton era defense budgets.

It also has to do with it being an outright stupid vehicle to try a long-range invasion in. It is overly heavy, sinks in the sand, wears out relatively quickly, and does 0-50 in over 17 seconds - among other issues. They have very particular uses, in which they are nice to have, but they are not very good for their mission during the invasion. That said, any chance congress would fund a whole second fleet of vehicles for the soldiers to exchange out?

47 posted on 09/25/2006 6:20:50 AM PDT by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: pleikumud

They are disgraceful.


48 posted on 09/25/2006 6:21:09 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks (BTUs are my Beat.)
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To: Eagle Eye
LOL...it was easy to see Rumsfelds mistakes in planning and policy early on.

Do you have comments that cite your "early on" certainty?

And if it is true that Rumsfeld refused to allow occupation planning, then he should be fired for that. Personally, I believe he made those threats. I guess I don't drink enough FR koolaid!

Now THAT sounds like koolaid drinking. Koolaid comes in many flavors, this flavor is lemon.

49 posted on 09/25/2006 6:22:50 AM PDT by rhombus
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To: spintreebob

Right, what was I thinking - this is just a game or movie, isn't it? Or at least that is how the left continues to treat it.


50 posted on 09/25/2006 6:26:57 AM PDT by Let's Roll ( "Congressmen who ... undermine the military ... should be arrested, exiled or hanged" - A. Lincoln)
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To: rhombus

You have your opinions; I have mine.

I'll bet yours are formed from reading lots of news articles and FR postings.

I'll compare my first hand observations in Iraq against yours any day. I was in theater before the shooting started.


51 posted on 09/25/2006 6:28:20 AM PDT by Eagle Eye (There ought to be a law against excess legislation.)
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Comment #52 Removed by Moderator

To: Always Right

Buffoon Billy denied, in the Wallace interview, that he had ever criticized President Bush. That is now settled. We must have just imagined that Billy is a scum-sucking liar and pervert.


53 posted on 09/25/2006 6:34:23 AM PDT by thelastvirgil (Incumbent politicians: PUBLIC ENEMY NUMBER ONE.)
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To: TexKat
Batiste said if full consideration had been given to the requirements for war, it's likely the U.S. would have kept its focus on Afghanistan, "not fueled Islamic fundamentalism across the globe, and not created more enemies than there were insurgents."

General Jones, the NATO commander in Iraq just said that there are abour 5000 Taliban in Afghanistan while describing how 1000-1500 of them just met the 72 virgins.

Why do these guys always want to fight the last battle?

54 posted on 09/25/2006 6:37:58 AM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: rhombus

Unfortunately Rumsfeld was the right Sec of Def at the wrong time. He was selected to transform the military for the 21st Century. During the Clinton admin, the Airforce and Navy made the cuts and consolidations, the Army resisted the process. Rumsfeld intended to carry out the transition programs and the Army was dragged along screaming and kicking. Rumsfeld felt the Army generals were too old fashion. The war comes along and the relationship between the Army generals were bad. So when the Army generals tell Rumsfeld that we need atleast 500,000 troops for the war, need time to ramp up production of spares and ammo, need time to stockpile for a major expedition to fight and occupy Iraq. Rumsfeld felt that this was another episode of Army generals being too cautious, considering the fact the SOF/Aiforce teams just won the war in Afghanistan with small high tech, command and control tactics envisioned by the Army transformation plan he envisioned for the 21st Century. Rumsfeld keeps forgetting that occupying a country requires lots of boots on the ground, and many of the old fashion collaries on logistics, Murphy's law, better to have it and not need it vs. oops I needed it and I did not bring it still applies. After three years of war, DoD just asked Congress for funds to expand the production lines for tactical vehicles to produce replacements for the ones that were lost to IED and accidents. All this time we stripped the nondeployed units, and garrison of vehicles to replace the ones lost in Iraq. Right now, we have plenty of manpower to expand the forces in Iraq or fight in any new trouble spots, but those units cannot deploy because their equipment of been drawndown and used as replacements for the losses in the war.


55 posted on 09/25/2006 6:40:51 AM PDT by Fee (`+Great powers never let minor allies dictate who, where and when they must fight.)
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To: nuconvert
And how much was spent on congressional/senatorial investigations that were a waste of time and the public wouldn't have approved if asked beforehand?

I hate to think about that. I'm sure that someone on this board has that number, I haven't seen it, however. The Democrat dog and pony shows ahve got to be getting pretty pricey. I'm still waiting to see how much the Valerie Plame non-investigation cost.
56 posted on 09/25/2006 6:43:07 AM PDT by DustyMoment (FloriDUH - proud inventors of pregnant/hanging chads and judicide!!)
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To: TexKat
And more to the point where the hell has General Baptiste been since 1979? Did we "fuel" islamofasicsm from 1979 through 9/11/01?

These kind of statements by those who occupied leadership positions in the US Military while islamfasicsm went unanswered causes me to doubt any thing else they have to say. They were there, they either did not see the danger or ignored it and then criticise those who are moving proactively against it for creating islamofascists?

One word, BS.

57 posted on 09/25/2006 6:45:33 AM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: Fee
Nice write up. Makes sense. So it's important to replace him two years before he's going to be replaced anyway? That's where the Rumsfeld bashing falls short and drifts into pure politics. Replacing him at this time would just be purely political and add more confusion among the career-hungry "stars".
58 posted on 09/25/2006 6:48:29 AM PDT by rhombus
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To: TexKat
retired Maj. Gen. John R. S. Batiste said in remarks

Friday, April 14, 2006
Retired Army Major General John Batiste says there is "no coordinated effort" to get Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld fired.
Sorry, General Batiste, I'm not buying it

Retired flag officers are a prototypical "good old boy" (and girl) network; they communicate frequently, share ideas, and they certainly know how the game in Washington is played, right down to a well-timed media offensive.

retired Maj. Gen. Paul Eaton, is expected to assess Rumsfeld as "incompetent strategically, operationally and tactically ...."

General Eaton faced a tough assignment, but as Big Lizards reminds us, his tenure was characterized by uneven training efforts and some embarassing moments--notably, Iraqi units breaking under fire. Eaton was eventually replaced by Lieutenant General David Paetraeus, who turned the program around

Finally, officers like Shinseki, Riggs, Eaton (and others) are, in Rumsfeld's view, symbolic of an ossified Army leadership corps, that he has been fighting for the past five years. When Rumsfeld returned to the Pentagon, he discovered that the Army was well behind the other services in "transforming" itself for the 21st century.

He also found Army leadership was reluctant to accept change--so much so, that when he was looking for a new Army Chief of Staff, he recalled an officer (General Peter Schoomaker) from retirement for the job. Rumsfeld's selection was viewed as a slap at the current generation of Army three and four-star generals. Now, three years after the invasion of Iraq, some of those generals are having their revenge, using criticism of the war as convenient cover.
formerspook.blogspot.

59 posted on 09/25/2006 6:56:33 AM PDT by Just A Nobody (NEVER AGAIN..Support our Troops! www.irey.com and www.vets4Irey.com - Now more than Ever!)
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To: TexKat; All

On C-SPAN3 at 1330 ET:

http://inside.c-spanarchives.org:8080/cspan/schedule.csp

Meeting
War in Iraq
Senate Democratic Policy Committee
Washington, District of Columbia (United States)
ID: 194439 - 09/25/2006 - 1:30 - No Sale



Reid, Harry U.S. Senator, D-NV
Dorgan, Byron L. U.S. Senator, D-ND
Durbin, Richard J. U.S. Senator, D-IL
Schumer, Charles E. U.S. Senator, D-NY
Clinton, Hillary Rodham U.S. Senator, D-NY
Dayton, Mark U.S. Senator, D-MN
Eaton, Paul D. Major General (Ret.), U.S. Army
Batiste, John R. S. Major General (Ret.), U.S. Army
Hammes, Thomas X. Colonel (Ret.), U.S. Marine Corps




The Senate Democratic Policy Committee held an oversight hearing on the planning and execution of the war in Iraq.

Witnesses include: Major General John R.S. Batiste, U.S. Army (Ret.), who was senior military assistant to then-Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz and commander of the 1st Infantry Division, serving in Iraq in 2004 and 2005; Major General Paul D. Eaton, U.S. Army (Ret.), who was responsible for training the Iraqi military from May 2003 to March 2004, and for rebuilding the Iraqi police force from March through June 2004; Colonel Thomas X. Hammes, USMC (Ret.), who served in Iraq in 2004 and was responsible for establishing bases for the newly reconstituted Iraqi armed forces.


60 posted on 09/25/2006 7:03:55 AM PDT by leadpenny
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