Posted on 09/30/2006 10:56:20 AM PDT by wagglebee
I believe that waiting in heaven stuff i really do. I had three sisters who died. one set of twins my mother miscarried and the other died of Pneumonia when she was just two. as I get older i believe that if i am good enough person in this life that maybe when i pass on I'll get to know the sisters I never had. maybe my sisters dying has something to do with me being so against all these women just throwing their children away thru abortion.
Sometimes you get to see people's real agenda when they equate "contracepting" with "aborting".
Of Roe v. Wade? She never had an abortion, and the challenge was to name a woman who had aborted and later had children, after regretting the abortion. She regretted being the Roe of the case, but she never had an abortion.
Certainly, not enough.
But the sad reality is that 5-4 is tough to beat. It takes 2/3 of the house, 2/3 of the senate and 2/3 of the states to overturn the “right” to and abortion created by 5 men.
I challenge anyone to show me where the right to an abortion exits in the Constitution. This is the real abortion myth.
Is it just me or are all the "thumpers" in this issue and on this forum men? It seems they are the quickest to condemn and the last to forgive.
Oh, you noticed. :)
Depends on how one goes about "contracepting"
If you prevent a fertilized, living human egg from implanting, you have ended a human life. The mere passage of time does not change the fact that it a human life. A fertilized, living human egg always develops into a human. A 30 yr old does not look like a 10 yr old or a 1 yr old. A fertilized, living human egg at the moment of conception is exactly what a human life looks like when human life begins.
So yes, most forms of "contracepting" have the same effect as an abortion – a human life is ended by the actions of another human. If you go about "contracepting" with a condom, you are not taking a life.
My only agenda is life, as in “Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.” Life come first.
Jennifer O'Neill. Star Parker. Alveda King. Sharon Osbourne.
And those are just 4 celebrities. There are number of FReepers who have posted threads and comments on this very forum who have stated they regret their abortions. Here is just one of them: A FReeper's Story of Her Abortion and the Aftermath. You can find others on various other Pro-Life threads, often on the "regret abortion" threads scattered around here.
There are also pages and pages of articles on google, for instance under the search terms "regrets abortion." This will bring up several personal stories. There are also the women who participate and speak in events like March for Life, and speak of their own regrets.
Borders on not pinging the person you are talking about, but you worded it so vague to get away with it. Still sorta low of ya.
Lets talk about "Forgive".
Some argue that we are to forgive murderers. These same people insist that we incarcerate murderers and make thieves pay restitution. They say "forgive," but actually demand punishment. These objectors do not sincerely believe in forgiveness, they only want to decide on the penalty themselves while rejecting the penalty God has commanded.
You can forgive a debt owed to you, but not one owed to your neighbor. If your friend owes you $100 dollars, you can cancel that debt if you like; however, if your friend owes me $100, you have no such authority to cancel that debt. You can forgive a sin against you, but not a sin against your neighbor. Only God has authority to forgive a murderer and even He will not forgive the unrepentant murderer.
A murderer has also assaulted the community, the law (in this case of abortion the law is void because of Godless courts) and God Himself (thus abortion is assault not only on the innocent baby, but community and God's Laws). You can only forgive the wrong done against you, not that done against God or your community.
When Jesus spoke of forgiveness, He did not confuse this simple truth. He taught clearly that you must forgive those who sinned against you, not those who sinned against your neighbor. For as He taught Israel to pray: "And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors" Mat. 6:12
Today people think Christians should forgive Abortionist even though they don't want/ask for forgiveness. In truth, the abortionist lobby doesn't want forgiveness in it's true form, but only to try to distort right and wrong realities in society. Unfortunately for them, even the newest of Christians armed with just a few Biblical verses would see right through their smoke screen.
those who rebuke the wicked will have delight, and a good blessing will come upon them. Prov. 24:25
he who is spiritual judges all things… 1 Cor. 2:15
"Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment." John 7:24 "Judge not" is the Hypocrites Golden Rule. For "judge not" (Mat. 7:1-5) is simply a hypocrites application of do unto others as you would have them do unto you (Mat. 7:12). "For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged" (Mat. 7:2). Judge others as you would have them do unto you inverted is Judge not if you do not want to be judged. Therefore the hypocrite does not judge. As Jesus said, "Judge not… you hypocrite" (Mat. 7:1, 5 KJV; Ezek. 16:52).
Jesus warned against judging falsely or with hypocrisy. For immediately after saying "judge not," Jesus taught just how to judge correctly: "And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye?... Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother’s eye." Mat. 7:3, 5
Christ kept this theme throughout His ministry. "Hypocrites," Jesus said, "why, even of yourselves, do you not judge what is right?" (Luke 12:56-57). Still, His own followers have mostly ignored the Lord’s harsh rebuke: "Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother’s eye" (Mat. 7:5). "Judge Not" is the Hypocritical Oath and hypocrite haven.
Also of interest on this subject is what the Bible has to say about us standing around doing nothing about murder of innocents.
"So you shall not pollute the land where you are; for blood defiles the land, and no atonement can be made for the land, for the blood that is shed on it, except by the blood of him who shed it." Num. 35:31-33
People that abort their children not only hurt the child (obviously), but also defile the land (America) that allows it.
Forgiveness now days is some simple man contorted invention in is not at all the deep complex layered issue it truely use to represent. Sin affects more than just right and wrong with the law of the nation, it affects the community and God. You can forgive on some levels where personal involvement occurs, other levels you have no ability to forgive.
You know what? Go ahead through your life carrying resentments and not forgiving. Go ahead and treat people that YOU think are sinners and have no repentance like pariahs.
I won't. Again. I don't think I will invite you over for dinner.
Borders on not pinging the person you are talking about, but you worded it so vague to get away with it. Still sorta low of ya.
It encompassed more than one. Apparently you consider yourself a "thumper" so go ahead be offended. And, don't forget, never forgive me.
When Jesus spoke of forgiveness, He did not confuse this simple truth. He taught clearly that you must forgive those who sinned against you, not those who sinned against your neighbor. For as He taught Israel to pray: "And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors" Mat. 6:12
So I can forgive those women but you can't. Great. Don't. I don't care. Let hate, anger and self-righteousness be your moral guide.
Jesus would tell you to pray for these women and love them in spite of their sin.
Don't get me wrong... Jesus loves you and can forgive and commands us to forgive. But if you can find "love the sinner, not the sin" in the Bible.. please post it for all of us to read. Lets go with reality.
While Jesus was on the cross the Romans inflicted the death penalty on the two criminals next to Him. Christ said nothing in their defense, or against their crucifixions. One of those two mocked Christ. In response, the other criminal (whom Jesus would immediately declare righteous, Luke 23:43) said of their punishments, "we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong" (Luke 23:41). What did this forgiven criminal, this newly justified man, say about the death penalty? Bottom line: the criminals were getting their just punishment. The dying criminal knew the truth, as he said, "we indeed" are "justly" punished.
"Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets... Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great..." Mat. 5:17-19
Thems the facts... and the Bible don't lie.
There in a nutshell is the meat of my arguement. If you are not asking for forgiveness, you don't deserve it. If abortionist are not asking for forgiveness, they will not recieve it and any Christian that gives forgivness to such is in direct contradiction to Biblical references I have given (and you havn't). If you had half a brain you would of noticed that my whole arguement is based on those that "DON'T" ask for forgiveness.
Also notice that I posted a name (and email address) of a woman that committed abortion and "I hugged her" and then went on to expand on how highly I thought of her. She made her piece with God, but I can not on one level forgive her (for her baby's sake) since her offense was NOT with me personally, but I could forgive her for sins on society and blood shed on this land. Jesus has forgave her fully (I truely believe, though one can not verify personal relations other than by the fruits they produce and Jeans fruits are good).
Now continue on your self destruct mode...
Is the act of contrition a public or private one? How would you know if anyone asked God for forgiveness? Is it any of your business?
My relationship with God has absolutely nothing to do with you regardless of how you believe. By extension that includes all the other people on this planet.
I know that might be hard for you to accept but that's the way it is.
You are a sinner and Jesus loved you enough to die for you. We are to model the same love for each other regardless of our sins. Loving a person who offends you by their actions is not a sign of weakness or approval. It doesn't mean that people won't experience the consequences of their actions. If you are are incapable of love and forgiveness than you have no right to ask for those thing yourself.
I agree, never was the issue, but you have once again failed to debate me on any of my points previously pointed out, you just keep moving goal posts.
We are to model the same love for each other regardless of our sins.
The model I used was spelled out in full detail in my posts. If you have a problem with the Author of the Bible, take it up with Him.
Loving a person who offends you by their actions is not a sign of weakness or approval.
Does loving a child that misbehaves without correcting them love or laziness and apathy? Love without the rod is not love. Correction for sinners (including myself) is love in the deepest sense.
If you are are incapable of love and forgiveness than you have no right to ask for those thing yourself.
Once again, your point A does not connect to point B in reasoning. I am quite capable of forgiveness, and I have proved the guidelines (Biblically) of giving that forgiveness. You do not distort the truth of good and evil in the name of forgiveness. God is more than just forgiveness and mercy, He is a jealous God and says so, He is a just God and says so, to limit Him is to one side is to steal from the truth. We both know what Jesus says about that.
The notion that judgment is wrong is a ludicrous one. Should child-molesters escape condemnation? Should rapists be free from criticism? Should society refrain from judging those arrested for murder? Should we call evil good? Or would that be a judgment too?
"Judge not" is the prayer of those who want to hide light under a basket. The cliché describes salt which has lost its flavor, which no longer seasons or preserves. Those seduced by this terrible lie are taken out of the game. As spectators on the sidelines, they only watch the spiritual battle. But they are in a comfort zone. Apathy is the craving. "Judge not" is the mantra for shirking responsibility.
Borrowing characters from C. S. Lewis, imagine this dialogue between a junior demon named Wormwood and his wicked uncle Screwtape. This fiendish exchange could have occurred a century ago.
Wormwood: Believers have so many weapons at their disposal. It is difficult to neutralize them. It takes a huge effort just to slow the work of a single Christian.
Screwtape: Your one-on-one approach is inefficient. This is the age of Madison Avenue and mass marketing. If you can undermine their whole group at once, then you’ve accomplished something.
Wormwood: Unfortunately, I’m not highly productive. In the time it takes me to frustrate one believer, I could be tempting a dozen heathens.
Screwtape: Don’t lose heart, Wormwood. We are implementing a plan to impair the whole Church with a single ploy. Wormwood: I don’t see how that will be possible. The Christians that I’ve seen are dedicated to warning others about hell. It’s all I can do just to get one of them distracted for a short time.
Screwtape: We are going to use their Leader’s own words.
Wormwood: No! Please don’t. Don’t even joke about using His words. I can’t take it.
Screwtape: If you’re ever going to grow up to be an effective demon, you’re going to have to learn to use the Enemy’s words against Him.
Wormwood: It just seems so dangerous. Which words are you going to use?
Screwtape: "Judge not!"
Wormwood: I don’t understand why He would tell them not to judge. That’s confusing. He commanded His followers to rebuke, admonish and judge hundreds of times in His Book. And that’s what they’re out there doing. And I might add, it’s causing me no end of grief.
Screwtape: When their Leader said those words, He was speaking to hypocrites. "Judge not… you hypocrite," as He said later in the same paragraph.
Wormwood: Yeah, but how are we going to use "Judge not" to neutralize the whole Church?
Screwtape: We are going to get them to ignore the fact that He was talking to hypocrites. He said that hypocrites should not judge, at least not until they stop doing the wrong deed themselves. But we are going to make them think that none of them should judge.
Wormwood: That’s brilliant… if you can pull it off, that is. I mean, if we can get them to stop judging, then they won’t rebuke the wicked. And they won’t be able to admonish those who are sexually immoral.
Screwtape: It is even more brilliant than you realize. If we can seduce Christians into following the instructions for hypocrites, we will turn them into hypocrites. It’s like government workers who follow foolish rules so precisely they are transformed from human beings into bureaucrats; drones who mindlessly dispense red tape regardless of the misfortune they cause. The slave who willingly obeys his master, begins to conform to the master. If believers willingly submit to an instruction for hypocrites, they will conform to hypocrisy. Eventually, with a little evil luck, we might stop them from confronting unbelievers altogether because, as you know Wormwood, to confront requires judging. And if they don’t judge unbelievers, they are hypocrites, professing the Gospel but denying its power.
Wormwood: Ha, ha. I’m excited. When do we start?
Screwtape: Everything is underway already. Just do your part.
Wormwood: And that is…?
Screwtape: Make sure your targets read as little of the Book as possible. Don’t get too worried if they stick to their favorite twenty cliché verses. But make sure they remain ignorant of most of the Word.
Wormwood: Master, you are brilliant.
Screwtape: You can call me Master if you want, but don’t let the boss hear you.
Please next time you post to me, back it up scripturely. Thanks in advance, otherwise you are wasting my time.
LowOiL
Sorry, but no matter what you or I think, lets see what the Bible says about judgement of others. Attention on verse 2 and 3 for judgement.
1 Corinthians
Chapter 6
=====================
Is it any of your business?
He who is rightous judges everything... (source previously posted by for reference 1 Cor. 2:15-16). Ask and I will post more... (like Rev. 20:4, 1 Tim. 5:24)
How would you know if anyone asked God for forgiveness?
Simple... "By their fruit you will recognize them." Matthew 7...
"Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them."
"The model I used was spelled out in full detail in my posts. If you have a problem with the Author of the Bible, take it up with Him."
I hope you aren't saying that if someone disagrees with your interpretation of scripture then they are disagreeing with God. That really would be beyond arrogant on your part.
Once again...
Please next time you post to me, back it up scripturely. Thanks in advance, otherwise you are wasting my time.
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