Posted on 10/25/2006 9:56:15 AM PDT by T-Bird45
Frontpage Interview’s guest today is Joseph C. Phillips, an actor, writer, lecturer, and social commentator best known for his role on The Cosby Show as the character Denise’s (Lisa Bonet) husband, Lt. Martin Kendall. He has also been on a variety of TV shows and in such films as Strictly Business, Midnight Blue, and Let’s Talk about Sex. His writing has appeared in Newsweek, Los Angeles Daily News, Essence, Upscale and USA Today and his weekly column, “The Way I See It” appears in newspapers around the country. He was also a regular contributor to NPR’s Tavis Smiley Radio Show. He is the author of the new book He Talk Like a White Boy.
FP: Joseph C. Phillips, welcome to Frontpage Interview.
Phillips: Thank you for having me.
FP: Tell us a bit about what inspired you to write this book and to title it the way you did.
Phillips: The motivation came from Tavis Smiley. I was doing commentary on Tavis’ NPR radio program and he challenged me to write a book. The nucleus being some of the commentaries I was writing for him. To this day I am convinced he wasn’t really sure I was going to take him up on it. During that same conversation he mentioned that he had given that same advice to many folks before and no one had ever followed up on it. Well, he clearly didn’t know who he was talking to. The inspiration, however really came from the events of 9/11. Prior to that infamous day I had written a one man play. I was busy working on a follow up piece when the murders occurred. After that what I was writing about changed dramatically. I began to think about my life differently. I began to think about my family differently, my marriage, my faith and my country much differently. What I wrote about in the book, what I write about in my column and what I speak about when I am in front of audiences is Family, Faith and Freedom.
The title comes from something that happened to me in 8th grade English class and is the story that begins the book. After I had answered a question in class a Black girl from across the room raised her hand and announced, “He talk like a White Boy!” That, as they say, was the beginning of my life. Everything changed for me after that moment. I had never been called an Uncle Tom before, never accused of wanting to be white, Never before assaulted because I raised my hand in class and spoke proper. Of course now that I am writing a weekly column and appearing on radio and television as a commentator the accusation is no longer that I speak like a white boy, but that I think like a white boy.
FP: What are some of your thoughts about black identity and American identity?
Phillips: Interesting. In my mind true “black identity” must first be an American Identity. Blacks are uniquely American. In other words the journey of African peoples in this country is intertwined and can not be separated with the journey of this American republic. To have a “black Identity” is to have an American identity. As I tell anyone who will listen, our blood is in the soil. The mud of Mississippi, the sand of New England, the tobacco fields of Virginia and the Carolinas, the red clay of Colorado, the dust of Texas. You are correct that I fly the American flag and proudly. This country is mine and I dare anyone to try and deny me my birthright. I love this country and I love what this nation stands for. I love American Idealism, American ingenuity and American compassion. I love the American spirit. The things that make the Black community strong are the same things that make America strong.
I suspect, however that what you are asking me has more to do with the issue of how one defines an authentic black identity. The episode in 8th grade is instructive as are the emails I often receive calling me an Oreo or an Uncle Tom. To say that one speaks (or thinks) white is to claim that there is some crucial element missing in my self definition. The question I ask is who is it that decides what these elements are? The very fact that we are talking about a self definition suggests that there can be no set of hard and fast rules. One of the things that makes America great is that we are at liberty to define ourselves. And if we wake up one morning and don’t like what we see we can erase it and begin again. This thing we call a black identity is made up of millions of individual identities and each one of them is authentic. There are of course lots of folk that set themselves up as racial gate keepers, checking credentials and pulling membership cards if folk do not toe the line. But like the game of race the game of racial authenticity is one where, as John Edgar Wideman says, “the fix is in.” The racial gatekeepers are always moving the bar and making up new rules as they go along.
On the other hand I am not one that likes the term colorblindness. I do not think it accurately describes the struggle. The struggle it seems to me is not to do away with color. Color is real. The struggle is to make real the idea that color does not confer worth. None of us has a desire to be invisible. The color of our skin and our hair texture make up a part of who we are. A very important part. My wife is a black woman with red hair and freckles. It is crazy to pretend they do not exist. But what defines her and what should define all of us are the things we believe and the how we behave. King called it Character. The Greeks called it virtue.
FP: Can you share a little with us about your spiritual journey?
Phillips: Sure. Like all journeys, however, it is rather long and circuitous. Where would you like me to begin? I am a Christian. I believe that Jesus is the Christ. I was raised in the Episcopal Church, but left or rather stopped going to church when I moved out on my own. When I married my wife (who was not raised in the church) and I decided we wanted to go back to church. Part of the reason was that quite honestly we were having a rough time of it. We have been married 12 years and to paraphrase Langston Hughes, our marriage aint been no crystal stair. We decided that we needed help – supernatural help. We sought the lord and the lord answered. Our marriage is stronger and our lives are happier. Our love has grown along with our family. We have 3 boys now. And we are raising them in faith. The thing that I know is that as scripture says the lord is always near. I have seen his work in my life. I know God is real. That however, does not stop me from doubting. That is the struggle. That is the faith walk and I stumble all the time. But I just tell myself that I have to get back up and keep walking.
FP: Shelby Steele has written a book, White Guilt. What do you make of the issue of white guilt in general?
Phillips: I think the quest for moral legitimacy is very real and Shelby makes a very convincing argument. One need only look around and see the evidence of this quest. It is to be seen in an affirmative action policy that began as a way to correct years of discrimination and has now morphed into a tool for diversity, to the recent flack about Senator George Allen having used the N word 30 years ago. Corporations pay race hustlers money to verify that their hamburgers or what have you are not racist…it is very real and the damage it causes and has caused is also very real. The deligitimazation of traditional American institutions (because they lack moral authority due to race) has played the devil with the black community. We have turned our back on old school values that sustained us and made us strong and dynamic and embraced a new school value system based on racial authenticity and color identity that is quite simply counter productive and destructive. Here my book intersects with Steel, John McWhorter, and Tom Sowell.
FP: What is your perspective of the accusation that “Bush doesn’t care about Black people” that liberals and numerous black “leaders” have hurled around? During the Katrina tragedy, for instance, the lib-Left portrayed the whole episode as some kind of moral lesson about white racism. What is your angle on that?
Phillips: Jamie, here is a perfect example of guilt at work. The claim “George Bush doesn’t care about Black people and the emphasis on Katrina and race is not one against the competence of government it is a claim against the moral legitimacy of that government. The questions raised by Katrina should involve the efficiency of government, the streamlining of bureaucracy. Instead the signature issue is “look how hated we are!” And the left – ever eager to exorcise their guilt –jump on board. Oddly enough what we didn’t hear from the left is any discussion of the efficiency of the administrative state and the clear evidence of its complicity in the disaster.
Quite simply the governments’ duty is to protect our lives, our liberty and our private property regardless of race. To the extent that government does or does not fulfill that obligation they are deserving of our criticism and our scorn, which we can express during the election or through the peoples representatives and remove political leaders from office. My concern is only with government doing its duty. It was clear during the catastrophe and became clear afterwards that there was a failure of government to do its duty, and that failure occurred at all levels of government. The city government of New Orleans failed miserably, the state of Louisiana failed miserably and the federal government failed. It is interesting that the man to receive the most blame was President Bush, who was in fact the 3rd line of defense and not the first. Ray Nagin was re-elected for Pete’s sake! Kathleen Blanco’s name is hardly ever uttered in relation to this mess and she is perhaps the MOST culpable. I tend to think much of this is political opportunism. If anyone believes a democratic administration would have done any better I have a bridge in Brooklyn I would like to sell them.
But here is something else that is particularly troubling to me. Part of the reason the Bush administration has taken so much flak is that we have come to view the federal government as our protector – not the instrument with which to secure our natural rights, but a parent doling out goodies and taking care of our every need. It leads us to imagine that if people are poor it is because the government has not done enough. If people do not have bread it is because the government did not provide it. The emphasis on race during Katrina was particularly harmful because it was used to distract from the primary question, which is did government do its job period. Not did it do a good job for Black people. It plays into the notion of rights flowing to groups instead of individuals and people begin to ask – as they certainly did – how much bread will the government now give to black people?
I want to be clear. The government has a role to play, but each individual has a role to play as well. Making Katrina about government caring for Black people is NOT to ask if Black people care about Black people, which it seems to me is in some respects far more important. Relying of Government to do that for which it is not well equipped and then to view that failure as further evidence of ones wretchedness is a product of the new school. I am as you know Old School.
FP: Joseph C. Phillips, thank you for joining us today.
Phillips: Thank you Jamie.
Phillips ought to get together to tour with Cosby and be a one-two punch of common sense against the race hustlers out there.
bttt
He Talk Like a White Boy.........it's called English...LOL
Phillips gets it.
A breath of fresh air is right. A very welcome contrast to the Democrats' historical MO of mobilizing group resentments against one another.
Excellent!
Excellent article. Thanks for the heads up.
Don't for one moment, think Cosby is Conservative. That being said, I'm seeing him in concert this Sunday. I'll let you know what kind of things he says, if any, about race.
There are of course lots of folk that set themselves up as racial gate keepers, checking credentials and pulling membership cards if folk do not toe the line.
I am not black, but I think one of the hardest things about being a black intellectual must be the feeling that other black people are "checking your credentials" and deciding if you meet their racial definition. Conservatives of any color have it hard, but black conservatives seem to get attacked from all sides.
On the Cosby show, he played a member of the military who marries Cosby's ditzy daughter, Denise. He was very handsome.
Somehow I couldn't imagine the former Mrs. Lenny Kravitz with a military man.
He Talk Like a White Boy - who axed you
It should come as no surprise that this guy is a Republican. At least that's what I've heard.
No, but Phillips is.
I agree that Cosby is not conservative but I do believe that he has recently espoused some plain truths concerning language and education that have not been well received by the race hustlers. The Cosby message, enhanced by Phillips' more conservative view of the proper role of government, is the message most needed in the black community.
Of course, both messages would gain another dimension with the wisdom of Professors Williams and Sowell on basic economics.
Wow! A voice from the wilderness. This guy makes so much sense the left will have to destroy him ala Bill Cosby.
Wouldn't that be a great book. One co-authored by Cosby on the role of family, Sowell on the role of economics and this guy on the proper role of government all from a black perspective?
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