Posted on 11/02/2006 10:18:40 PM PST by NormsRevenge
I was not referring to any denomination.
I was referring to Luther's own actions.
Your Pastor IS right. I can show you the rules about this from the New Testament. Your Pastor already knows what books and verses.
A universal united Church was Jesus' command and his burning desire (that they may be one), and the obvious manifestation of that command and idea is the Catholic Church with a pope who, doctrinally, is the earthly pastor of ALL true Christians.
To be truly Catholic, one must willingly submit to a pastor.
Our pastor did a sermon about those parts of the Bible.
I already knew them.
The thing is that people that are for women being pastors just don't have good arguments. They don't use the Bible as their source for their reasons. It's all about their experiences or what they think is correct.
...doctrinally and ideally the pastor of all...
I meant to express the ideal that the Church aims to be.
That, my friend, takes us back to the basics. Do we do what WE think correct and right or do we do what God's Word tells us? The good thing about American, and it's happened to me, that if you find the doctrines of one church not Biblical and too your suiting, you can go down the street until you find a church that you are comfortable with. I, personally like the old traditional myself.
I used to have questions about it. Over a long period of time, with intense study of the issue and its fruit, I have changed my mind.
An amazon.com reader's review:
This book opened my eyes to the difference between the beliefs we hold from our upbringing and culture, and the beliefs actually based on the Word of God. This book is very factual, exhaustively researched, and infinitely practical. In "Why Not Women", Loren Cunningham explains the history behind the oppression of women in Greek and Roman societies which led to centuries of discrimination in our western society, and even infiltrated the Church. He shows how Jesus and the early church were truly revolutionary in their equal treatment of women. David Hamilton digs into the controversial passages in God's Word to show how our preconceived biases have tainted our interpretation of these verses. He clearly breaks down the original language of the text in order to show what the writers were truly saying. If you are willing to let God's Word, not your opinions, determine what is truth, this book will open your eyes to God's heart for women, and the giftings and callings he has given them.
Interesting definition for "a calling to the ministry."
I, too, was raised in the Episcopal Church (EC). My brothers were acolytes; my sister and I sang in the youth choir. I accepted Jesus as my Savior in an Episcopal Church Sunday School class. I owe my eternal life to the faithfulness of the people in my little Episcopal Church, as well as to the Lord who died for me. But I cannot tell you how I grieve for the direction this church has gone. I left it when I was in my early 20's and went to a non-denominational, charismatic church. I could never go back to the EC except to visit, but there were aspects of their worship services that move me to this day, especially the reverence they put into getting one's heart right before Communion, and the sense they helped usher into the services of the majesty and holiness of God (as I say, how far they've fallen).
As with you, I also had some interesting ministers. My first EC minister was a great pastor, but he was the only one about whom I can say that. Not one after him was someone I could cotton to. One was insulting and verbally abusive to me when I asked him to be a reference for me on my college application. I never figured out what got into him. He was a big, extremely obese, cigar-smoking, domineering man. He always frightened me but that day, I walked out of his office in tears and I never spoke a word to him after that unless forced to. When I got married, I refused to let him come near me, and had the associate minister perform the ceremony.
I don't see how the more conservative elements of the EC are going to be able to remain in the mix with the liberal elements. "How can two walk together, except they be agreed?"
I never had any problems with priests - until now. My priest is about my height and from Poland and runs around wearing "Proud Member of the Vast Left Wing Conspiracy."
"At some level if it becomes clear that the relationship is broken, that there's no possibility for a new life in that relationship, then the pastoral thing to do is to find a creative way to separate, a gracious way to separate,"
Does this mean she is willing to let traditionalist parishes separate in an orderly way, with their buildings, etc?
"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." -Manuel II Paleologus
Why would any moral person be an episcopalian?
It is becoming the religion of the democrat party, a freak show cult.
My 73 year old mother is still Episcopalian. She is a very moral person and is heart broken over what has become of her church.
That said, my husband and I left when our children were young.
The hand writing was on the wall and we decided it was not the place to raise children. It was very difficult for me to leave as I loved the church. We were blessed to find and attend a Continuing Anglican Church, 1928 prayerbook.
"Does this mean she is willing to let traditionalist parishes separate in an orderly way, with their buildings, etc?"
I doubt it.
I attended Episcopalian church often as a kid but today I wouldn't go to one.
As for your mom I think it's like Southern blue dog democrats. Even though the party is completely foreign to their way of thinking, they stay with the party cause their pappas, grand pappas etc. have always voted dem.
Me too. Curious, isn't it, that the reporter in this story didn't bother to ask.
The self-destruction of the Anglican Communion continues apace.
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