Notice this "exquisitely preserved" specimen is in Queensland, Australia, which is just a little bit south of New Guinea, where there have been unconfirmed eyewitness reports of living pterosaurs.
Isn't that interesting.
Posted on 11/03/2006 10:10:40 PM PST by DaveLoneRanger
DISCOVERING a rare, 100 million-year-old fossil is amazing enough.
But not as surprising as the way Queensland Museum palaeontologist Alex Cook found it.
Keen for a break after more than three hours of driving, Dr Cook thought he would stretch his legs at the northwest Queensland town of Hughenden - and literally stumbled over the fossil.
"I found it literally on the side of the road. It's serendipity, a happy accident," Dr Cook said today.
It is the third jaw fragment of a pterosaur - a winged, fish-eating reptile that lived in the time of the dinosaurs - found in Australia.
It also is one of the "most exquisitely preserved" pterosaur specimens found in the world.
Dr Cook said pterosaur bones were "rare worldwide".
Only 50 pterosaur bones have been found in Australia in 140 years of collecting.
No wonder Dr Cook couldn't believe his luck.
"We were getting a little tired ... so we stopped at Hughenden, had some lunch, had a bit of a look around and I literally kicked it over," he said.
"It is a little bit like finding an extraordinarily endangered species that you have been looking for - they are that rare."
Dr Cook was on a fossil-finding trip in northwest Queensland with fellow palaeontologists - Colin McHenry, from the University of Newcastle and Adam Morell of the Richmond Marine Fossil Museum, near Hughenden about 500km from Mt Isa - when he made the surprise find in 2004.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.com.au ...
Isn't that interesting.
Cool, I've been up Queensland, and close to PNG.
But, Dave, this is science, it has no place here, you should know that.
Now get to church.
:)
Har. Har. Breaking out the pine sap...
I'm trying to figure out why the four-year-old feature "15 Answers to Creationist Nonsense" is resurfacing on Google news tonight. Try searching "intelligent design" on google news, and it pops up. It doesn't even say it's been updated.
Why after four years is it news?
One man's "literally on the side of the road" is another man's place of passionate significance.
"Where was the road when we chose to pass away here...or thirty feet East, accounting for the mud...!"
"Impressive wing span!"
pting
I guess that mass exodus you were talking about wasn't complete, Dave. *rrr* And I was so looking forward to threads without the same fallacious arguments.
Central Scrutiniser, you should be more specific when you say "stem cell research." If you mean embryonic, what's "conservative" about destroying nascent life instead of using adult cells which have yielded 72 cures?
Ah, so you aren't interested in being in a forum that has actual debate?
That is sad.
As for Stem Cell research, all of it. I'm not for abortion, but its gonna be used in other countries as well as our own. If fetal stem cell research is against the law in the US, other nations will use it, and it it leads to discovery, so be it. You aren't going to stop discovery, invention and science, thank God.
As for being a conservative, you don't own the litmus test to my political leanings, and, as a conservative, I respectfully would tell you to piss off.
No, I just like the debate to be debate to be a little more complex than "Dat's reelijyun!"
As for being a conservative, you don't own the litmus test to my political leanings, and, as a conservative, I respectfully would tell you to piss off.
Oh. Well in that case, I GOT TWO WORDS FOR YA!
Evolution can't answer some pretty simple questions: for instance, what did these creatures do to get by before they evolved? How in the heck did all these wonderful "mutations" get a chance to occur, when these species should have died out long before these wonderful "adaptations" took place. If something exists, it must have been created, and for some reason a lot of people have trouble with this simple, logical conclusion. Also, if something did "evolve," does that automatically mean that it was never created? I'm afraid I'm not as smart as the evolutionists who deny creation, as I have many more questions than I have answers.
Funny how fossils are dated by the level of earth that they are imbedded in, but in this case a 100 million year old fossil laying right on the top of the ground.
Creation can't answer any questions, as it is a belief.
Care to explain the noahs ark fable?
You should really read up and try to understand research.
Evolution is a theory that is added to every day with new research and findings. Creationism is just a bunch of dogmatic christians trying to create science to fit their pre concieved beliefs. You seem to think of evolution in the span of one life, its actually many many millions of generations, you need to think beyond the 5000 years that young earth creationists pulled out of their hat.
But, by all means, believe whatever the hell you want, its a free country, even if its not a totally free forum.
Technically, this wasn't a fallacious argument. It was just a stupid sore-loser slur. There's a difference.
Hey, I tried joining DarwinCentral and was banned twice on false charges. So much for "actual debate."
Stem cell research has done practically NOTHING to cure the ailments of humanity. If you'd done your research or read here on FR, you'd know that. Perhaps you should ask Mr. "Are cord-blood stem cells different in some way from embryonic stem cells" Ichnuemon about it.
We're not going to stop discovery, invention and science with creationist beliefs and you're not going to start it with evolutionary beliefs. Evolution has nothing to do with observational, applicable, operational science.
Careful! You just thanked God!
And you're lucky I don't hit the abuse report on your "PO" phrase, but the mods are a little sick of hearing about crevo complaints.
Let's be careful not to gang up. We'll take turns. :-)
"...Creationism is just a bunch of dogmatic christians trying to create science to fit their pre concieved beliefs. You seem to think of evolution in the span of one life,..."
Creationism isn't just a Christian belief, it's the belief of all religions, including simple deism. And don't try to tell me that anti-creationism isn't a religion. It's just as dogmatic as any religion for some. How else do you explain the absolute inability to draw the simple conclusion that a thing which exists, must have been created? I don't discount evolution as a possible answer to many questions, I simply know that it can't answer the ultimate question of how life works, and where it came from. It may be part of the greater puzzle, but creation is as obvious as the nose on your face. Life didn't spring from coincidence, it was created, and I believe it continues to be created today. The evidence is just as compelling for creation as it is for evolution, using the same evidence. You simply won't accept it, because it goes against your religion.
Creation can't answer any questions, as it is a belief.You did not answer his claim, you merely shot back with a "so is yours" argument. But you're correct. Creationism is a belief because it postulates events that are no longer able to be observed. Evolution is the same way. Both infer from the evidence to support their ideas.
Care to explain the noahs ark fable?Have you seen my big posts about that? I'd be happy to link you to them. In the morning. *Yawns*
But, by all means, believe whatever the hell you want, its a free country, even if its not a totally free forum.It's not a completely free forum. Ask any troll you want. They're kicked right off. That's not to say evos are trolls. That's saying, it's not a free forum.
"...Care to explain the noahs ark fable?..."
"...You should really read up and try to understand research..."
My, aren't we condescending? This is really a common trait among the know-it-all elite like yourself, but quite a dissappointment in a fellow FReeper. I'll try to understand research, oh great one, but I'm too busy learning how to read without moving my lips at the moment...
"...You seem to think of evolution in the span of one life,..."
Do I? Why is that? So, are you saying that these evolutionary leaps occurred one tiny step at a time? So, shouldn't there be many, many forms of the same exact animal, with only one teeny tiny change, every millenia or so? Is that what the research has shown? Or has science simple looked at current life, then some fossil from zillions of years ago, and extrapolated their theories from that? It seems to me that there are a LOT of blank spots being filled in with assumptions, or maybe I should call them beliefs. You know, like an ignorant religious person.
Its not condenscending, just asking for some data, some proof, some science, some evidence.
You know, just how people act in the real world.
Care to tell me how all the animals ate after the ark landed? The flood wiped out the forests and all the grasslands, and I doubt the zebras made a 3 thousand mile trek back home without food.
Or the sloth which can't live on the ground, or the koalas, who can't swim, only live in one type of tree and lived about 10 thousand miles away and across a giant ocean.
But, don't concern yourself with any facts, I'm hardly a "know it all elite", just someone that likes to rely on actual data, facts, science and research findings to explain what happened and happens on this earth, instead of throwing my arms in the air and saying "God did it!"
Actually, that is what the fossil record shows, sorry that you didn't read up. There are all kinds of things you can read on the net to explain evolution to you, backed up by fossils, research, data, and biological research.
Its your choice to be ignorant about it. Not all species needed to evolve to their surroundings, some species are as they were millions of years ago. I could take you on a scuba dive and show you all kinds of evidence of evolution, but I doubt that you would let your dogma down to think rationally about it.
Personally, I don't care if you are a creationist or not, its your life and you have every right to think how you want, even if that right isn't exactly afforded to everyone at this website.
I don't speak for Darwin Central, that is your problem.
Creationism exists solely to fit data to the preconcieved beliefs of the bible. No actual research or scientific method is involved, its purely belief based, and completly flawed.
As for Noah, it was a fable, its 2006, if you can't understand that by now, there is no hope for you.
As for it being a free forum, how come Patrick Henry got his homepage edited? Is science and free thought not allowed?
Do you believe the earth is 5000 years old? And what proof do you have?
I operate on the basis of data, empirical, proof based data.
Not some scripture, which as important as it may be to you, is not proof, and doesn't pass objective scientific tests.
But, if you want to live in an unproven world of fables, go ahead, its your life and you are free to believe your dogma. Just don't mandate that my kids be forced to learn your religous based fables.
Well, yes, it is actually quite condescending, with a dash of nastiness, and just the slightest touch of preconceived notion. Who's talking about Noah's Ark? I'm not here to argue whether a biblical reference is or isn't historical fact, I'm simply stating a simple premise: a thing which exists, must have been created. You keep tossing out these red herrings like you were in a fish fight. And thanks for cluing me in to how things work in the real world, your majesty. You are ever so helpful, but I'm afraid that I'm hopelessly dim, and your helpful remarks are wasted on me. Oh, BTW, the sloth which can't live on the ground? Didn't there use to be a giant GROUND sloth? And all those animals which couldn't survive after the great flood? Well, they just ADAPTED! Actually, there were many other species, but they weren't the fittest! And as for my evidence, it is you. You exist, therefore you were created. That requires a creator. The nature of that creator is a mystery that we've been working on for a long time, and may never truly understand, but simply closing your eyes to it sure isn't the answer. Unless it's against your religion.
No more condescending than being told that I am a marxist or not a true conservative because I follow science.
It happens here every day. Free thought is dead here.
The owner has stated that evolutionism = marxism, how extreme is that?
I am not your majesty, sorry you feel that way, I just believe in a rational universe and realize that man has discovered many things through science that has disproven ancient religious texts, like that whole "world is flat" thingy.
As for the sloth, if you believe in the ark, the animals of today are the same as back then, so, the S. American sloth, couldn't have crawled from Mt. Ararat to some point where it swam for thousands of miles back to the completly wiped out jungles of S. America where it lived in old growth trees, that of course wouldn't be there due to the flood.
The present day sloth can't live on the ground. Explain how the koala got home without eating eucaylptus leaves, explain how all the cold blooded reptiles made it home. Please explain how the lions and other carnivores ate. Millions of other logical questions destroy any attempt to make the fable a real story. It was a fable, a story to teach, it was not a literal event, why cant evangelicals understand this?
Sorry you feel inferior, that is not my attempt. You have no evidence other than stating that its in the bible, well, I refuse to accept the bible as a scientific text.
No red herrings, just asking for some proof that is objective and not part of your dogmatic beliefs.
Well. OK. It doesn't seem marxist to believe that evolution is the answer to the mystery of life. I've occasionally felt that free thought is zotted here, but only when it's from libs, and I usually join happily in the squelching of our enemies' free thoughts. I don't think the same rules should apply to evolutionist thinking, since it's not in the same realm as left-wing insanity. It's just the approach that anyone who believes in creation, which seems obvious, must also ignore all evidence of the surrounding world, that is so off-putting. It smacks of arrogance. Also, you keep mistaking my arguments with someone else's, obviously, since I haven't once mentioned the Bible, Noah's Ark, or any other Christian tenets. I believe in God, because the evidence of my eyes proves that there must be a creator, if there is a creation. Not so sure about the whole Ark thingy, but you've got to admit that if the bible IS the literal truth, that God could have simply waved his pinky finger and made it possible for all those animals to survive, through some miracle. Not that I'm arguing in favor of this premise, just postulating that it would be congruent with the rest of the story. I'm sorry that you feel so wronged by the Christian community, but it really doesn't justify such insensitivity on your own part. It is not irrational to believe in the "watchmaker" philosophy, any more than it's irrational to believe that a collection of bones and fossils means that we all descended from single-celled organisms. I've watched many, many documentaries about the evolution of man and animals, and one single theme pervades them all: the assumption. Always and ever, the assumption is king.
Funny how "100 million year old" things are just scattered around next to a road. Strange how none of the people building the road noticed it. Perhaps the road is 101 million years old ?
Or junk science is out to brainwash the secularists again.....
Welll... it could be that the road is just as old as the fossil, and that recent erosion has unearthed 100 million year old soil. It happens, truly, and isn't really even uncommon. It doesn't mean we're descended from single celled creatures, but it doesn't automatically mean it's a scam either.
Well, then, just list five from the Bible, and cite the scripture which was disproven, please. (For instance, nowhere in the Bible does it say the earth is flat).
No examples. Not about to give an opening for apologetics since we're not allowed to respond effectively.
Just curious, though. Why do you maintain the avian flu pinglist? Is it to disparage the danger?
NIV Matthew 24:34-47
34. I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.
35. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
36. "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
37. As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.
38. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark;
39. and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.
40. Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left.
41. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.
42. "Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come.
43. But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into.
44. So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.
45. "Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time?
46. It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns.
47. I tell you the truth, he will put him in charge of all his possessions.NIV Luke 3:23-38
23. Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph, the son of Heli,
24. the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Melki, the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph,
25. the son of Mattathias, the son of Amos, the son of Nahum, the son of Esli, the son of Naggai,
26. the son of Maath, the son of Mattathias, the son of Semein, the son of Josech, the son of Joda,
27. the son of Joanan, the son of Rhesa, the son of Zerubbabel, the son of Shealtiel, the son of Neri,
28. the son of Melki, the son of Addi, the son of Cosam, the son of Elmadam, the son of Er,
29. the son of Joshua, the son of Eliezer, the son of Jorim, the son of Matthat, the son of Levi,
30. the son of Simeon, the son of Judah, the son of Joseph, the son of Jonam, the son of Eliakim,
31. the son of Melea, the son of Menna, the son of Mattatha, the son of Nathan, the son of David,
32. the son of Jesse, the son of Obed, the son of Boaz, the son of Salmon, the son of Nahshon,
33. the son of Amminadab, the son of Ram, the son of Hezron, the son of Perez, the son of Judah,
34. the son of Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham, the son of Terah, the son of Nahor,
35. the son of Serug, the son of Reu, the son of Peleg, the son of Eber, the son of Shelah,
36. the son of Cainan, the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem, the son of Noah, the son of Lamech,
37. the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch, the son of Jared, the son of Mahalalel, the son of Kenan,
38. the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.
NIV Luke 17:26-30
26. "Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man.
27. People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all.
28. "It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building.
29. But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all.
30. "It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed.
NIV Matthew 12:17-21
17. This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah:
18. "Here is my servant whom I have chosen, the one I love, in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will proclaim justice to the nations.
19. He will not quarrel or cry out; no one will hear his voice in the streets.
20. A bruised reed he will not break, and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out, till he leads justice to victory.
21. In his name the nations will put their hope."
NIV Luke 24:18-21
18. One of them, named Cleopas, asked him, "Are you only a visitor to Jerusalem and do not know the things that have happened there in these days?"
19. "What things?" he asked. "About Jesus of Nazareth," they replied. "He was a prophet, powerful in word and deed before God and all the people.
20. The chief priests and our rulers handed him over to be sentenced to death, and they crucified him;
21. but we had hoped that he was the one who was going to redeem Israel. And what is more, it is the third day since all this took place.
NIV Acts 2:22-27
22. "Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.
23. This man was handed over to you by God's set purpose and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross.
24. But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him.
25. David said about him: "`I saw the Lord always before me. Because he is at my right hand, I will not be shaken.
26. Therefore my heart is glad and my tongue rejoices; my body also will live in hope,
27. because you will not abandon me to the grave, nor will you let your Holy One see decay.
NIV Acts 23:6
Then Paul, knowing that some of them were Sadducees and the others Pharisees, called out in the Sanhedrin, "My brothers, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee. I stand on trial because of my hope in the resurrection of the dead."
NIV Acts 24:13-15
13. And they cannot prove to you the charges they are now making against me.
14. However, I admit that I worship the God of our fathers as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that agrees with the Law and that is written in the Prophets,
15. and I have the same hope in God as these men, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.
NIV Romans 5:1-9
1. Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
2. through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God.
3. Not only so, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance;
4. perseverance, character; and character, hope.
5. And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.
6. You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly.
7. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die.
8. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
9. Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him!
NIV Romans 12:12
Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer.
NIV Romans 15:4
For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.
I am a scientist, and know of none which have been conclusively shown to be false.
The age of the earth bandied about, derived by Archbishop Usher, iirc, is not written in the Bible. That was the Archbishop's interpretation of the geneologies presented.
Most of the cities referred to in the Bible have been found by archaeologists.
Two are conspicuously absent and have generally defied conclusive location, but then, they were destroyed.
Why do you maintain the avian flu pinglist? Is it to disparage the danger?
It was handed off to me.
No, not to disparage the danger, the danger is very real.
When significant developments occur, I try to get a ping in.
There is a contingent present on this site which seems to think this is another chicken little style Y2K, (without apparently realizing the reason Y2K passed smoothly is that billions were spent on software patches and preventative fixes ahead of the date change).
Maybe H5N1 will not develop into a pandemic. Maybe it will. I cannot predict the future, but the trend in pathogens of late seems to be for more resistance to currently known antibiotic and antiviral therapy.
Those who survived H5N1 required extensive medical care, which would rapidly become unavailable as facilities were overwhelmed in the event the disease were to become widespread.
With the track record of the disease, its deadliness, and the potential to develop into something more dangerous, it bears watching, especially as it has been carried far and wide by migratory birds.
The economic impact of the high path H5N1 on poultry producers (even if it does not become readily transmitted from human to human and remains difficult for humans to catch) alone could be devastating in some sectors and areas. Just think of everything which contains chicken or turkey, and you get that picture.
As for humans, if this does become readily transmissable from human to human, and retains its present lethality, the results could be devastating worldwide. The elimination of even 1 person in 10 at random would have tremendous implications for civilization as we know it, and this bug would take more than 5 on average if it kills people as it has those who have been confirmed to become sick with it.
For those who consider the gross number of fatalities at present to be insufficient to merit this level of concern, Ebola has not killed that many people, nor has Marburg, but we take no chances with them, either. It is the deadliness of the disease which makes it significant. It is its potential to become widespread which makes it dangerous.
While I try to avoid hype (none is necessary, really), H5N1 has the potential to develop into something which could have a greater impact than the bubonic plague did.
Being prepared for whatever comes is prudent, whether that be a blizzard, epidemic, hurricane, earthquake, NBC attack, whatever, and having the mechanisms in place, the contingency plans, and supplies only increases your likelyhood of survival.
My grandma always kept her pantry stocked, I do, too.<
Hi Tim, could you tell me where you located those pics of Civil War-era pterodactyls? My daugher has her BS in Biology from a major state university, but inspite of four years worth of evolutionary biology she remains a creationist. I'd like to send her the link to wherever those pics are posted...thx, T_J
Roads are built using material excavated from borrow pits - gravel aggregate, for example - and transported to the construction site. One can find strange rocks out of place along roads anywhere. Quarries are very common places to go fossil hunting, because rocks we otherwise would not see are readily accessible.
"Pterosaur, it's what's fer supper..."
I'm not Tim Long, but if you right-click on the graphic and select Properties, you will see that the domain where the graphic is located is:
http://www.omniology.com/
...and drive on the top half of the tank (only I prefer top 1/4).
I would disagree with Central Scrutinizer's phrasing since miracles can account for anything...but much of what is written is hard to buy on scientific grounds. And, since I've read many of the Biblical literalist apologetics, find none convincing or even slightly persuasive, I don't need to read them again.
Incidentally, I have never objected to accepting the substance of the Bible on faith. It's trying to twist science to make it seem not miraculous, but utterly pedestrian that I oppose. Plus pretending that no human erro could exist in the trasncription. That appears to be hubris.
Surely you don't believe those are real photographs.
If that is the case, why do archeologists still have to "dig" to find ancient relics? Your explanation holds zero water.
Cry me a friggin river.
Your posts on this thread alone contradict the very premise you're putting forward. It is the height of arrogance and the epitome of ignorance to suggest that you and your ilk are somehow victims in this.
Save your indignation, and unbridled selfishness for those who are kindred to such elite nonsense.
If you don't like it here, then leave. Nobody's stopping you. Go back to Darwin Central, JREF, or whatever rock you crawled out from under.
Or you could be a man, stop your whining, and join in whatever discussion you like.
I would have, but I can't encourage you to indoctrinate your daughter with bullcrap. She sounds like a smart girl.
All those intervening millions of years of strata have been weathered away.If that is the case, why do archeologists still have to "dig" to find ancient relics? Your explanation holds zero water.
If gold miners can pan for gold that has washed out of the veins inside the mountains and down into the mountain streams, then why do gold miners still have to dig for... Oh hell, just tell your slave to explain it to you.
I think that what he was refering to was the constant drubbing whack-a-gopher irrelevant, illogical comments coming from evolution true believers.
Joan Rivers was in Australia not long ago. Did she return home?
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