Repost: (+) THE ART OF THE (WEAPONS) CACHE (+)

www.sit-rep.com (defunct website?) ^ | March 1, 2001 | Travis McGee

[GingisK]

The .308 and 7.62 are not _exactly_ the same round...

According to the Speer manual, they are exactly the same round. The former is the civilian designation, and the latter is the NATO designation. Of course, the military used FMJ bullets while hunters typically do not.

[Hazcat]

GK,

Yes the .308 and the 762 are the same and yet not. The NATO round has thicker brass and the Military rifle has a deeper head space (this I got from an ammo MFG and reading on the WEB). You can fire both from either BUT the civilian .308 may over expand and jam in the military rifle.

[Neo-Luddite]

CMP, Civilian Marksmanship Program.

A privately run organisation chartered by the U.S. Congress that continues the mission of promoting civilian marksmanship begun under the Army's former Director of Civilian Marksmanship. MUCH more info is available on their site: http://www.odcmp.com/

For a few qualifying hoops (not hard) these folks can sell you an M-1 rifle. More than that, they'll give the basic of shooting it at a clinic.

It's a bona-fide miracle that they are still around. From my experience, very nice folks who want to encourage marksmanship. And, they are placing needy M-1 with good homes that would otherwise be fodder for the torch of the liberals of th world.

[GingisK]

Military rifle has a deeper head space

When measured to .001, I find both exactly the same length. They mass the same on my tripple-beam Ohaus.

[Hazcat]

This is a very cool program!

Do you have any recommendations as to grade? Is Field Grade a decent weapon, rack doesn't look good to me but you may know better that's why I'm asking.

THANKS

[GingisK]

Belay that mass statement! Mr. Ohaus indicates that the military stuff is a bit heavier, especially when I clean both samples out well.

The external size of the cartridges are the same, however. The following is a good reference: http://www.smellysmleshooters.net/ammopressure.htm

[Hazcat]

OK. I was just repeating what I've been told and what I've read.

[Hazcat]

Here's a link to one disussion on it.

http://www.fulton-armory.com/308.htm

[archy]

CMP will still sell you one (with some miles on it) and plenty of ammo for a relative song.

Who is CMP?

These folks. Click on for more info.

[Hazcat]

Please read post #85. Do you have any input on grade?

Thanks

[blackie]

Roger that Joe.

Bravo Zulu!

[ArrogantBustard]

A decade or so back would be 'long about 1996 ... I'm guessing that farmer kept the FlAK around just in case the Soviets came knockin' on the door again. With the USSR defunct, that was no longer necessary.

[Joe Brower]

GK,

Hazcat's assertion about the 7.62 having a slightly thicker brass case than it's .308 counterpart is correct, and is mentioned in my Speer manual No. 12, which recommends reducing powder charges by 5% just to be safe.

Fulton Armory has some expertise in this matter, and their comments are HERE.

[Vinnie]

AP m2 in .30-06 is LEGAL TO OWN and NOT LEGALLY an ammor piercing round per ATF fed gov reg. Remember it is NOT ARMOR PIERCING per ATF.

Is that the same as black tip?

[Big Otto]

I used a material in my work years ago that we called "Buffalo Sxxt" that was designed for hand coating of underground piping.
Called Wax Tape, made by a company called Trenton.
Later, when I wanted to bury "something" I called their local rep in Houston, and was able to buy a small case of 6-6" rolls for cash.
This stuff is amazing, it hand forms into a waterproof shell that reminds me of cosmoline.
After a couple of years, it comes right off and cleans up with either turps or light oil, and in a pinch GOJO hand cleaner works also. No corrosion at all.
Since the wax seeps into nooks and cranies (and helps protect that way), I would pack ammo in a separate waterproof box first.


http://www.trentoncorp.com/wax1.htm

[Stoat]

Stoat, do you know where to get cosmolene? I know it's common on newly manufactured items, but don't think it's common in hardware stores...?

Sorry, not right off the top of my head.  I would only echo our friend Backhoe who suggested an internet search.  I'll definitely be considering the purchase of some if things look like they're getting really bad around here.(as they have in New York City, California, Australia or the UK.)

[Stoat]

 

NEVER tell ANYBODY about the fact that you own a gun

Hide like a good little chicken.

No thanks. We need to grow some spine, not give up the last of it.
 

I never suggested hiding, of course, only reacting intelligently to changes that occur in society, should they come about.  This thread is about, among other things, stealth.  If we're faced with a revocation of the Second Amendment and confiscations begin, I don't think that it's being 'spineless' or "hiding like a chicken" to take steps that insure the survival of yourself and your family and insuring the retention of your firearms....and it's certainly not 'giving it all up' if it comes to the point where it's all been lost already.

I'll never give an inch to the gun grabbers, but that doesn't mean I'm going to pretend nothing has changed, should change occur.

If things get to the point where people are turning each other in to the Gun Confiscation Police, I don't see how it will help anyone or accelerate the return to Constitutional Law if you're in jail and your property's been seized for "firearms violations".

[GingisK]

...Speer manual No. 12...Fulton Armory...

Well, we're all up to date on this one now. This is one of the things I like about this web site, one can't be misinformed for very long!

Thanks, guys!

BTW, I did mass out two cartidges and found the military one heavier...about 5% at that.

[Hazcat]

I now convey "semi-expert' status in 7.62 vs .308 ammo upon us all :)

[GingisK]

I love my Freep family.

I feed a lot of South African 7.62 X 51mm to an M1A and an L1A1.

Which brings to mind: Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's M1A; thou shouldst spring for thine own. Preban 7:62.