Homeschooling: Freeper Needs Guidance on *Effective* and *Proven* Programs

Oh, you mean those teachers that are better qualified to detect learning disorders so well that kids graduate highschools without the basic reading and writing skills to work at the so called McDonald's that you profess will pay for a good private school education.

And, of course, a mom/dad who is daily interacting with their child on a one/one basis and knowing what subjects their child is unable to grasp and which subjects they not only grasp but are bored by couldn't possibly recognize a gifted child. Versus the school teacher who is trying to control a class of 30 students and teach to the lowest common demoninator.

Yeah, I guess you are right./s

Yes, we will have to disagree....

I feel very strongly that professional teachers are extremely more qualified to educate students than homeschooling parents

Like on this. My mother was a high school graduate. I went to grad school in computer science and all my siblings are excelling in their chosen paths. My husband's family have all become engineers - except for the veterinarian. I can't imagine being unable to teach my (future) children anything I want them to learn. If I don't know it we'll get a text book and I'll keep one lesson ahead.

Private schools are infinitely better than public schools but, at the risk of being flamed to death here, public schools are better than home school

Whoa... uh... ok. Well, I won't flame but I will say you're sadly mistaken. I lived in a middle-class neighborhood with award winning schools and the girl I went to Sunday School class with for ten years, the star athlete with a 3.7 GPA who later went into teaching, literally could not read words of more than two syllables. Whereas I was reading over 300 books a year when I was being homeschooled

Private schools are affordable, and if you search for them I'm certain you can find one to meet your budget.

Budget? Maybe. But you see, when I have kids I want to stay home and be their mother. Not be supermom with the career and the minivan and late for soccer practice. We can't afford four kids, the comforts we want, and private school unless I worked. We can afford that if I stay home and homeschool. We expect to have some pretty smart kids and we know that homeschooling will let us give them the education they'll need.

Let me ask you this: Are you able to identify a child with mild autism, ADHD, or one possessing specific gifts and talents? Will your children rise to the same level they would if they were competing with peers in a homogeneous learning environment? Don't you believe that being around other children the same age adds something to the learning environment in that the other kids can offer argument, concepts or solutions that perhaps your child will find useful?

Again, I am not saying that ALL homeschooled learning situations equal junk educational value--some, yours and maybe others, probably have real value for students. But I think you'll agree that most homes would be hard pressed to equal the same resources that school settings do--just think of what is in chemistry and science labs, for instance (does your home feature an etna burner?).

The quest for parents should be to make our schools better with standarizational education requirements that are featured in many Asian and European school systems which, by the way, currently lead the United States in education.

No, but what I am saying is that parents should care enough about their community public schools to demand quality. In such a way you can weed out bad teachers and principals.

But, I bet if you attend a school board meeting in your own community, you'll find very few parents there (unless the board is meeting on a situation to hire a noted football coach or something of similar subject). There is a general apathy among parents about public schools; very few join PTA after middle school, fewer still bother to show up at parent-teacher conferences, and hardly any will back up a teacher in a disciplinary situation involving their child.

etna burner:

http://www.hometrainingtools.com/catalog/chemistry/lab-equipment/p_ce-burndxl.html

We actually use a camp stove. My daughter is recently enjoying the craft of bending glass tubing for all of her science labs.

And where, in the real, applied world, do people only interact with peers of their same age and socio-economic background? When I seek out arguments and input, I seek out peers that present different points of view due to their experience in the world, work, education, age.

I am going to second this post. There is no perfect curriculum, just as there is not only one learning style or teaching style... rather there are many.

I have been teaching since 2001. Our first year homeschooling was last year. As a teacher it is incredibly liberating to be able to choose the best you can afford, instead of just working with what the district chooses. A word of warning, though, it can get expensive really quickly if you buy programs and then discard them because you find they don't "fit" - kind of like clothing that doesn't fit.

I am able to cater to my son's learning style, and he is able to help choose what he learns, aside from the three "R's."

I felt that I had to be frugal, so I wanted the best quality programs for the least cost. With much research, prayer, and consideration, I purchased Spell to Write and Read (with Cursive First), Miquon Math, Considering God's Creation (science), Story of the World (history), Galloping the Globe (geography). We quickly discovered what didn't work for us and adjusted for it. I also counted that my son is a Cub Scout. For Bible, I downloaded the free Bible Studies from Calvary Chapel. The best website I found for the basics of homeschooling was Donna Young's site http://www.donnayoung.org. She has all sorts of forms, homeschool helps, tips, advice, and even handwriting paper!

Though we still use some of the curriculae listed bove, as you can see from my previous post, we have adjusted considerably since last year. I expect we will adjust some every year. Honestly, as a teacher, this year feels very much like my second year did teaching in PS (with the exception that I am now my own administrator). It's easier than last year, and I think my son and I are more in tune to each other than we were last year.

My advice to any new homeschooler would be to take it easy and introduce one subect at a time - For example, start with spelling, and only do spelling for 2 to 4 weeks, then add mathematics, and only do spelling and math for the next 2 to 4 weeks, etc. We started with Bible Study, then Spelling, then Math, then lastly science and history. The thing to remember is that reading, writing, and arithemtic are the most important things in the primary grades. Everything else should be delight directed learning, and they will surely get to learn it all more than once in their educational careers.

Good luck, or should I say, Happy Hunting!

Let me ask you this: Are you able to identify a child with mild autism, ADHD, or one possessing specific gifts and talents

As a matter of fact... I am. My youngest brother was born with Down Syndrome and consequently I spent a good deal of time interacting with kids with developmental delays, autism, and other special needs. Specific gifts? You're saying a parent isn't going to recognize that her child has a talent for writing? Parents are famous for picking up on minor skills and making them out to be some grand talent.

Will your children rise to the same level they would if they were competing with peers in a homogeneous learning environment? Don't you believe that being around other children the same age adds something to the learning environment in that the other kids can offer argument, concepts or solutions that perhaps your child will find useful?

I admit, my husband and I are concerned that our children will not be bullied, beaten, mocked, forced to conform, told their interests are stupid, and targeted by predators but you know, homeschoolers get socialized too. I participated in math olympiads, chess clubs, biology classes, Shakespeare classes, roller skating days and field trips, with kids of my own age and all ages. What other time in life are you going to be put in a room with thirty people exactly your age but with nothing else in common and told to compete? Never, that's when. Homeschooling is the better life model than public schools.

But I think you'll agree that most homes would be hard pressed to equal the same resources that school settings do--just think of what is in chemistry and science labs, for instance (does your home feature an etna burner?).

Sorry, won't agree with that. We don't have an etna burner, no, but since we don't have kids, no need. That site posted a while back has all the stuff we'll need. I asked my husband and his family had a bunsen burner to do their chemistry experiments on. I took a chem class at the community college when I was 16. It was a mistake, I should have taken physics, it would have been more useful.

How about the quest for parents should be to get their kids the best education possible? For millions of children, that's homeschooling.

That is not what you are saying. You have repeatedly said that homeschool kids are at a disadvantage because their parents are not nearly as professional as educated teachers at figuring out learning disabilities, gifted abilities, and lack of socialization.

One of the reasons I won't allow my kids in a public school is what you have now said. Because I do care about the interaction my kids have and I am not going to throw them to the wolves -- the other kids that are dumped in the school that is used as a daycare center. My kids are too precious for that treatment.

And where, in the real, applied world, do people only interact with peers of their same age and socio-economic background? When I seek out arguments and input, I seek out peers that present different points of view due to their experience in the world, work, education, age.

Obviously I was not able to in my previous post but that is the point I was trying to make, thanks for making it for me...real world is other kids, other arguments. Catholic schools still have a lot to offer even though most of the faculty now are laity (my sister teaches in one, when she began 30 years ago she was the only teacher who wasn't a nun and now nuns are none if you'll forgive the pun). Catholic schools are very affordable, and other Christian ones are too. I would advise staying clear of the "white-flight" ones however because most of the curricula is very fundamentally slanted.

You missed it... age, experience, etc.

Kids all the same age really don't bring anything different to the table in how to approach things. In fact, they really don't bring much to the table in schools because they are too worried about how they are dressed, who they are going to humiliate next, when they can get high next, etc.

In the real world, you interact with people who are there for a reason, who have valuable input, and help you expand your world. This is not true of a institutionalized school setting.

Gosh, what kind of neighborhood do you live in, you seem to be discribing an inter-city school in East L.A.? I don't blame you for being wary of public schools, especially after episode such as Columbine, Colo. But, believe me, most public schools are safe--and private schools are extremely safe. It is my belief that if all upper socio-economic status parents such as yourself begin homeschooling that this country will soon mirror the educational environments of Mexico or some other Third World Country.

An other option to check out is the University Model School. In a UMS the child goes two or three days a week and the other days the parents tutor the child. Or you can just pick and choose one or a few classes if you wish.

The University Model School is a school for home-schoolers. And since the child spends less hours at school the prices are much less.

There are not many UMSs out there as of yet, but they are popping up everywhere. Here is their website: NAUMS

The list of schools they have is in no way complete. There are numerous more that have just started and have not met all the criteria to be listed. Also University Model School is trademarked so other schools that are using this system but are not affiliated with NAUMS go by other names making them somewhat harder to find.

I'm so glad I didn't attend one of those European or Asian school systems of which you speak so highly. I would have failed the 8th grade aptitude test and been forced into a "technical" school without hope of going to college.

Whew! Good thing I live in America where we have CHOICES!

Standardization is only good if you are willing to flush the non-standard kids and families from the system. And this, my dear sir, is the systemic structure of standardization you advocate. Pwetui!

dung.

Well, first of all, if my child were sick, how would the doctor know if I didn't take him there? Yes, I take my kids to the doctor, but I also take them to get the medicine, take them home, tuck them in bed, give them the medicine, cook them healthy food, nurture them, comfort them stay up with them all night if need be. The doctor spends 10 minutes with my sick kid, I spend my life with them.

Legal problems, well, we tend to behave ourselves around here....but if I needed a lawyer I would call one, but I would be involved!

Basement flooding......last time I needed a plumber, according to my husband, I fixed the problem myself!

Next time I need a teacher, I'll call one, otherwise, I'll just use my education (Ph.D.) and teach my own kids. Good thing I know enough to buy the right curriculum, read it and teach it......

How many teachers do you know these days that are really "professional" teachers? Where did they come from? Most I meet came out of a corporate environment looking to "save the world" or some such thing. I'll put my education, and study of child development and love of my children up against any "professional teacher" any day of the week.

Mrs. Dung

"Gosh, what kind of neighborhood do you live in, you seem to be discribing an inter-city school in East L.A.? I don't blame you for being wary of public schools, especially after episode such as Columbine, Colo. But, believe me, most public schools are safe--and private schools are extremely safe. It is my belief that if all upper socio-economic status parents such as yourself begin homeschooling that this country will soon mirror the educational environments of Mexico or some other Third World Country."

In many cases, such as East LA, it's too late. Actually, in many Third World countries, things are better as international test results and the absence of much reporting of school violence suggest.

And, I'd like to ask you this: is a parent's main obligation to see to it that this country doesn't "mirror the educational environments of Mexico or some other Third World Country" or to simply look out for the best interests of their own kids?

Feel free to sacrifice your own child's future to some social cause, but don't you dare insist that other parents do the same.

Feel free to sacrifice your own child's future to some social cause, but don't you dare insist that other parents do the same.

This is exactly the point. It's so socialist to insist that parents think about the greater good rather than their own kids. Right now I don't have kids. I can afford the luxury of thinking about the horrible state of the education system and how it could be fixed. When I do have kids, though, my primary duty is to them. If I'm sticking them in public or even private schools thinking we'll be good influences, that's just not realistic.

I know a public school would have stifled me. I was bright but I learned by absorbing material from many sources and reassembling it, not by listening to someone speak. I was a very geeky girl, always had my nose in a book, loved math, and eventually went into computer science. I'm sure my life would have been hell in a government school. I can't compare the two from personal experiences but my husband went to public school for the first six years of his education and he says there's no way our kids will be anything but homeschooled. Which is obviously my feeling too.

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