Islamic school leases space in Caldwell
Memorial Presbyterian Church in Charlotte
Posted on 11/16/2006 7:24:45 AM PST by SquirrelKing
Islamic school leases space in Caldwell
Memorial Presbyterian Church in Charlotte
With membership and contributions plummeting, the session of Caldwell Memorial Presbyterian Church voted unanimously in April to lease the congregation's largely unused gymnasium and education building to the Charlotte Islamic School in Charlotte, N.C.
Islamic school leases space in Caldwell Memorial Presbyterian Church in Charlotte. Encouraged by the congregation's pastor, Dr. Charles McDonald, the session figured the 14-month lease was both an act of toleration and a budget-booster. But toleration turned out to be a one-way street.
At the insistence of the Islamic school and with the acquiescence of Caldwell's leaders, two large crosses were removed and stained glass windows with Christian symbols were covered up.
And, while the congregation accepted the initial decision about leasing the facility to the Islamic group, the cover-up of the congregation's Christian identity has drawn some heated response, as reported by The Charlotte World on May 21.
"The church's pastor … enthusiastically told the congregation about the new tenants," The World said, quoting McDonald's view of the arrangement from a column he wrote in the church's newsletter: "McDonald told readers that the Arabic name of the God of Islam is Allah, and that Allah is 'basically the same God of Judaism and the God and Father of Christianity.'"
"Dan Johnson, who leads a weekly Bible study at the church, says some folks in the congregation seem uneasy with the new rental arrangement, but didn't initially protest," The World said. "But when the Islamic school asked the church to remove or cover up Christian symbols in the rented buildings – and the church acquiesced – Johnson says uneasiness turned to anger for some."
The major daily newspaper in Charlotte, The Charlotte Observer, also ran a recent article about the Charlotte Islamic School and its lease of the Caldwell facilities. But, in its May 18 story, The Observer took no note of the controversy at the church. Rather, it focused on an intra-Islamic controversy.
Charlotte's only Islamic school was part of the Islamic Center of Charlotte, a mosque, until school and Islamic leaders disagreed over who should control religious education in the Islamic community.
The Islamic school at Caldwell Memorial, near downtown Charlotte, has 110 students in pre-kindergarten through the eighth grade.
That's far more than the number of people who regularly attend Sunday worship. According to congregational data posted by the Presbyterian Church (USA), Caldwell Memorial had 129 members at the end of 2002, an average worship attendance of 27 and an average Sunday school enrollment of 10 that year.
The 2002 budget was $69,000, down from a high of $207,000 in 1997.
"So, for now, it seems that the folks who visit Caldwell Memorial Presbyterian Church may not be able to see stained glass windows with Christian images," The World said, "but they will be able to clearly see two large signs on both sides of the church grounds. Those signs read: 'The Charlotte Islamic School.'"
An office worker at Caldwell Memorial told The Layman Online that McDonald was not available for comment.
I am amazed at this - but hardly surprised. As far as I can tell [from making phone inquiries and talking with friends of mine from Charlotte, this relationship still exists. I'm sure it is touted as "progressive" and the picture of tolerance - but it boggles my mind to think of this occurring. Especially when I can only imagine the reaction of the local Imam would be to me requesting to establish a Christian school in the basement of their mosque.
Sleeping with the enemy alert!
The Left.......giving our country away with both hands.
Islam is not the real problem for these folks.
Give unto Allah that which is Allah's.
It looks like in this case their own name is soon to be ironically descriptive.
How have we come to this??
Nancee
So much for the stated Islamic notion that Christians "are people of the book"~LOL!
Better headline:
A dead church exposes reason for its demise
The ACLU fights for the separation of Christianity and the state.
But Islam and the state together is okay.
I thought the Protestants took the crosses down a few hundred years ago. My, how time flies.
It's probably related to neighborhood demographics, too. African Methodist Episcopal may be flourishing in the area, or Korean Baptists, or Iglesia Pentecostalia.
Man cannot love both God and money. Choose thou. Whom will you serve?
The collection plate has liberalized churches all over the world. Even the Catholic church has gone pro-sodomite. They're selling the souls of their congregations to the devil in exchange for cankered silver and gold.
It would be interesting to see what happens if the church decides not to renew the lease. At any rate, it's a dead church.
I would rather sell the Church or donate it to the town for something other then an Islamic school. In my eyes they don't belong in a Church. Now I have this thing going on with myself about Muslims. I happen to think they are not this religion of peace and I don't trust them. It just bothers me that they are in a Church and have had the windows and crossed removed. I would think it would be distasteful for them as well to be in a Church. I can not see them letting Christians use one of their mosques for a Christian school.
Nope, just crucifixes.
Hide it under a bushel
"In my eyes they don't belong in a Church."
They don't belong in the West.
Dhimmitude comes to Charlotte.
This pastor is a false shepherd, an apostate, and a traditor.
I could live with that too.
It's hardly even a symptom of the problem. Would be interesting to see if attendance has increased in surrounding churches or if this was part of a church split. I see it's located down near Memorial Stadium off John Belk. That's not too bad a part of town is it? Always seemed a little run down though.
It's near Central Piedmont Community College main campus, and in a mostly non-residential neighborhood these days. I expect their congregants moved to the 'burbs.
I doubt the city wants it, although the lot might be worth something for redevelopment. Their board decided to rent it. Maybe they'll change their minds when the lease is up, and do something else.
There is soooo much wrong with this I don't know where to start
Don't show the Cross to Islamonuts and vampires.
Charlotte is on its way to being the San Fagsisco of the East. If you live there, get the hell out and flip-off Parks Helms and Pat McCrory as you are leaving.
Turned out to be??????????? When was it ever a two-way street insofar as Islam was concerned?
They should invite Koreans down. Numerous Presbyterian Congregations in NYC area are now mostly Korean; and they are flourishing.
ping
Here's one of the problems they are probably encountering. The demographics of the neighborhood where the church is located has probably changed. In the past, the church could sell the property (which the congregation purchased and built upon some time in the past) and move to an area where it could gather a congregation. The church to which I belong did this in 1955.
However, the Presbyterian Church, U.S.A., after the merger of the northern and southern churches in 1983, now states that ALL church property belongs to the PC USA. If the congregation decides to relocate, the property reverts to the PC USA and the congregation gets NOTHING!!!!
Makes me think twice about contributing to the building fund at my Presbyterian church.
The water is getting warmer. But the frog is still comfortable.
Screw this. Make a contract with them that states no changes will be made to the church and nothing will be covered. If they don't like it, they can go rent a warehouse somewhere. Of have the Saudis build them a $50 million mosque.
A local Catholic school makes its facilities (parking and inside rooms) available to a neighboring orthodox Jewish synagogue on the high holy days for the overflow of congregants. I believe they use the cafeteria space and its not just for childcare, but for some religious services.
On those days when you drive by, you see the statues (Virgin Mary, Celtic cross) on the outside covered. I'm sure the crosses inside are too.
I kind of look at is as a thoughtful gesture done out of mutual respect.
The synagague, and the catholic school and a tiny Episcopalian church make their parking available to the Greek Orthodox church up the street for its festival.
I would hope a mosque in the area would do the same.
What you are describing makes perfect sense to me; very differnt than what is going on in this instance. I agree with you. We need to be respectful of others and extend both love and toleration to all. But this other stuff is just another reflection of the demoralization of our country!
Have a great day!
Nancee
That was his first mistake.
You seem to be confusing Crucifixes with crosses..crucifixes have Christ on the cross, while crosses are just crosses.
The PCUSA lost it's way a long time ago. They have been taken over by 60's liberals and congregants have left with their feet to other more traditional Churches.
Hope that 30 pieces of silver helps keep the school open.
But toleration turned out to be a one-way street.
Turned out to be??????????? When was it ever a two-way street insofar as Islam was concerned?
??????? I dont know who you are quoting, but it aint me.
I kind of look at it as a thoughtful gesture done out of mutual respect.
Mutual respect? You've got to be kidding. If Jews are going to the church and covering up all the statues, it's a sign of disrespect. They're saying, we dislike this stuff so much that we want to hide it; it offends us. How difficult is that to understand? If it's the Catholics who are covering up their own statues, they are morons.
In the case described in this article, the church leased space for 14 months to a Muslim school. IMHO they they cannot expect to force the Muslims to view the crosses in the leased space unless it was in the lease that the crosses could not be covered.
If you think that this is fun, just think of what the reaction would be if a Christian organization requested to rent out space in a Mosque. UUULALALALALALALALALA!!
What's the big deal here? The Islamic group is renting the property. They have the right to request changes to the property as part of their rental agreement. If the church agrees, why should anyone else have a problem? if the church has a problem with it, rent to someone else. Exactly how is this any cause for concern to anyone?
Legally: absolutely nothing.
Spiritually: absolutely absurd.
One ironic can o' worms, IMHO.
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