Posted on 11/26/2006 5:02:22 AM PST by shrinkermd
....More American women than ever are putting motherhood before matrimony. New data released by the Centers for Disease Control show that nearly four in 10 U.S. babies were born outside of marriage in 2005—a new high. These unwed moms aren't all teens—last year teen pregnancies fell to their lowest levels in 65 years. Some—like 44-year-old Mary Lee MacKichan, who used a gay friend as a sperm donor—are professional, older women who want to have babies before their biological clocks run out, but most are low-income twentysomethings. (Unwed births among 30- to 44-year-olds are up 17 percent since 1991; among those 25 to 29, they're up 30 percent.) And some 40 percent of those moms aren't going it alone—they're cohabiting, at least for a while. That's creating a major shift in what a generation of children are coming to call a family. "Marriage is still alive and well, but it has a lot of competition," says Wellesley College sociologist Rosanna Hertz, author of "Single by Chance, Mothers by Choice."
Ironically, sociologists say, marriage may be on the decline precisely because it has become so idealized. People expect more from marriage than they did a century ago, when it was mainly a practical arrangement to provide financial stability for women and a place to raise children. "Now it's not only love and romance but also self-fulfillment and personal growth," says Pamela Smock, professor of sociology at the University of Michigan. Since there's no longer much of a stigma attached to getting pregnant outside of marriage, many couples have replaced "shotgun weddings" with "shotgun cohabitations
(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...
It also seems to be fairly sexist, and it hurts me to know that women out there are willing to tolerate such sexism.
No modern woman has enough time to cook a pot roast for a weekday meal in today's world, whether or not they stay at home.
Well I can. I guess I got all those successful, modern women beat? Considering I wasn't even trying, that speaks volumes for their 'capability.' And I'm a man, so in terms of 'ideals' and conventional expectations, I shouldn't be accomplished in the kitchen at all.
I think what you define as the 'ideal' is indeed real in some folks' minds and I don't agree with it, but it need not be limited to this 'ideal.' I don't despise it at all - everyone finds their own path. I think to the extent that you are fixated on this artificial limitation, your reactions tend to be exaggerated - using words like despise and abhor. Strong words, and not really appropriate here. Certainly a more even tempered reaction keeps thinking clearer and more balanced, and not upset the balance of mind that I find to be a good thing.
Men can demand what they want, and so can women. All they need to find is a compatible mate. Not millions, just one. And maybe not you. That's fine. You are free to cultivate your life anyway you like. So are other women. And you may arrive in different places. I consider that good.
Indeed, you consistently come across as more narrow minded rather than broad minded, at least on this thread. That's probably because you have attached to much emotion despising and abhorring things.
While I am basically sympathetic to your message, you really come across poorly in the presentation. Anybody who is animatedly hostile to you needs to relax. Please consider that you need to relax, also. And mature. That can come with time, or it can never come. It's really up to you.
So while your argument is basically valid, have the flexibility and maturity to know that people are free to not buy what you are selling. Rational people can look at the same dynamics and facts and rationally come to different conclusions.
I tend to think that while on one hand you like the idea of people having more choices than ever, you don't like the idea that they came to different conclusions as you did. That's a fundamental flaw in your world view, and probably your self image. It can be corrected with wisdom and time, though. Oh maybe never. As long as you're happy, that should be good enough for you. It's good enough for me.
I know that... This is what I'm pointing out. If I can't find a desirable partner, I'd consider having a baby alone. If I do by some miracle get married, I'm still going to go to work as I don't like housework and being a PTA mommy. However, many people on this board do believe that there's only two choices... Be a stay at home mom and make pot roast ala Donna Reed or be a cat lady. I find it abhorrent that some people still hold this view and spending lots of time arguing with them.
Okay, please tell me why wanting to go out with someone who A. has a college degree and B. has career plans is snobby?
Pot roast is about the easiest dinner on the planet. Throw it in the slow cooker in the morning, eat it when you get home. Or start it on the stove when you get home, check on it every half hour, and eat three hours later. What's with making it into some symbol of women's subjugation? All you're demonstrating is that you can't cook. And why be proud of that?
True, I never suggested otherwise. But that's misdirection and not on point. It was you who raised Starbcuks guy, not me. And you never suggested that you shared emails or phone conversations with him.
Your point here is 100% correct and valid, but has nothing much to do with what I was responding to in your post. You came across as cavalierly dismissing a man because of the nature of his work. I reread your post and found nothing to support what you are writing now. While I agree with you here, it's a different message than what I responded to.
A credit to your crackerjack, discerning mind! Good. I'm with you on this.
Well, I make pot roast during the week, thanks to the slow cooker. I get your point, but I think your own personal hatred of cooking is coloring your reactions.
I have two masters degrees and make more than about 95% of the female working population, and I love to cook at the end of the day. I like sharing the day and a glass of wine with my husband while I chop and saute.
If your metaphor is female subjugation, don't pick pot roast to express it. That's a dish that completely takes care of itself for hours at a time while you do other things! :)
How about fried chicken then??
I'm sorry it hurts your feelings but you realize as that a part of people making their own decisions and choices, they will make decisions and choices different than you or me.
I don't see why this should be hurtful to you, though. Do you want people to make their own choices, or do you want people to make your choices? The former is good, the latter is very immature and betrays a remarkable lack of maturity and life experience on your part.
As for it being sexist, that's certainly a portion of it. But it need not be the beginning and end of the analysis. Can a woman rationally come to that conclusion without being sexist? I think so - I certainly see no reason why not. By branding one outcome categorically sexist (in this context), you limit the range of options and can't fairly evaluate the decisions people make.
So while sexism may be a component in some of these decisions that hurt your feelings, they need not be the only component, nor the controlling component. If you limit the range as you suggest, you will consistently find fault (because it doesn't match your world view) where some times no fault exists.
I posted before I saw yours; you're verifying how easy a good pot roast really is. I'm betting this will make her curious about trying one.
Is there any better smell to have in the house when you open the door at night? :-D
"each person has someone that THEIR really bad at"
Like.... spelling? ;-D
Maybe; I never got very familiar with doing fried chicken, because of the fat and grease.
Overall, I think and hope that the issue of "who does the cooking" is passe' as a political issue. If you enjoy it, do it, if you don't - don't.
See, I don't think you really do. You consistently frame issues in terms of a self serving outcome on one hand, and a clearly undesirable outcome as the other. From reading your posts, I think that you feel you "know that," but there is no real evidence besides your assertion that you do.
I hope you do, but I just don't see it. To be fair, I'm only evaluating based on your posts. I don't know you so maybe you do know better. I will say you have not communicated it well at all.
However, many people on this board do believe that there's only two choices.
You are the once who consistently frames things with this immature, either.or dynamic. While there may be some on the board who believe it's limited to one of two choices, they are wrong. The thing you fail to realize is that while rightfully pointing out that they are wrong, that you are wrong also. That just makes you both wrong - your analysis is as sucky as theirs. If you take some satisfaction in that, enjoy.
My wife stays at home and cooks a lovely potroast. Although we prefer beef burgundy this time of year.
Even if that's true, the fact is that those people have no power to make those changes in society. They might be nostalgic over what they think was a better time, but that time is not coming back.
If you're going to go around with such a huge chip on your shoulder, at least wear two of them; that way they'll look more like shoulder pads.
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