First Comes Junior In a Baby Carriage (4 in 10 Births by Single Moms)

MSNBC Newsweak ^ | 6 Dece,ber 2--6 | Debra Rosenberg and Pat Wingert

[mewzilla]

Having a college education..

Two words: Bill Gates.

....a decent career...

I'm gonna need your definition of decent since I suspect we disagree.

...and future plans....

Which are nice, but to my mind flexibility and determination count for more than just planning. Plans can be knocked into a cocked hat PDQ.

...There's nothing more unattractive to women than men in dead end jobs.

I'll need your definition of what constitutes a dead-end job since I'm not inclined to bad mouth any form of honest work or the people who do it.

[Accygirl]

Good for them... MBAs make twice as much..

[Accygirl]

"Two words: Bill Gates"

There's only one Bill Gates out there... Most men and women need to get bachelors and graduate degrees to get anywhere in business...

"I'm gonna need your definition of decent since I suspect we disagree."

One that requires a college degree...

"Which are nice, but to my mind flexibility and determination count for more than just planning. Plans can be knocked into a cocked hat PDQ."

Sure plans can change... But if a twenty-five year old guy tells me that his major goal in life is to become assistant manager at the local Starbucks, then I tend to run far away from him.

"I'll need your definition of what constitutes a dead-end job since I'm not inclined to bad mouth any form of honest work or the people who do it."

McDonalds burger flipper or Walmart shelf stacker...

[Coldwater Creek]

Not one person said a word about women not getting an education.

Of course, women should be educated.

You will understand about raisin children outside the traditional home when you grow up.

[IDontLikeToPayTaxes]

40% of babies are born to single mothers. Also, American women cover themselves in tattoos. Yeah, I really want to run out and get married.

[Mamzelle]

Interesting exchange going on. These guys that squawk because you hope for an educated man with a good job are the same ones who squawk at any woman who's not real easy on the eyes. For richer, for poorer--as long as she's a size 8 or under.

[kcvl]

Let me know when you 'make twice as much' as anyone.

You are going to get a rude awakening which according to your attitude you deserve.

[IDontLikeToPayTaxes]

Yep between $80,000 and 100,000 right after graduation (the average for a top twenty MBA program) is just pocket change???

You think men are attracted to career women that make 6 figures? lol

It's the other way around dear.

[grey_whiskers]

Mareen Dowd probably makes lots more money than you do... I don't agree with her politics, but I can admire that...

Yes, she probably does. But she is bitterly unhappy, and I don't particularly admire *that*. I figured out long ago that in order to make oodles of money, one *usually* has to give up anything resembling a personal life. You can aim for something less in salary and still live quite a good life.

Playing the MBA game might be fun while you are young, but I have seen it age people quickly. And in the meantime, I have seen women advance their careers enormously while young, and then spend multiple tens of thousands of dollars on the *chance* of getting pregnant later in life. You are meant to be more than a baby machine, yes; but you are also meant to be more than a cog in a machine run for someone else's profit. And there are rewards as well as regrets possible on either side. Don't jump to a conclusion before talking to people who have actually taken both paths.

Thanks for taking the time to write back!

Cheers!

[Mamzelle]

I wonder how many eligible men between the ages of 25-35 would answer, "Do you want your wife to stay home, keep house, and raise your children?" in the affirmative? I don't see that. Most of them want a wife, if they want to marry at all, who'll raise their mutual standard of living. And a lot of men want a DINK arrangement. Of course, don't expect them to get the Operation...

[Coldwater Creek]

You, young lady are an educated idiot!

[Coldwater Creek]

raising!

[MoochPooch]

Almost any man would have had sex with her and would have been safer than picking a gay man. I pity the poor child.

A more normal guy probably would be turned off by her. Chances are, anyway, she's gay and would want to avoid any sexual relations with men.

I can imagine the DNA of this kid. Father gay; mother whackjob. I pity him, too.

[Accygirl]

"The problem is not with women being educated--my wife has an IQ of 150--but of being propagandized by liberals, and telling themselves that whatever they are spoon-fed is "education"."

Wouldn't it be better for society if your wife used her intelligence to cure cancer or teach inner city children to read??

"The problem is that maintaining a home has had many of the challenging tasks taken out of it, not by men, but by the process of general industrialization."

So you're suggesting that we go back to the 19th century so that housewives can feel fulfilled... I'm sure many housewives would prefer to spend their time working at a part time job or taking care of their children rather than dying their own wool. And the modern conveniences are a big help to working parents...

"For the nonce, many women who have entered the working world have discovered the "dirty little secret" their men kept from them, concerning the working world. Working for a corporation SUCKS. My wife points out to me the many women at her job who absolutely HATE working but have to continue doing it, because they can't afford a decent lifestyle otherwise. "

Staying home and keeping house can also suck big time. I think that vacuuming and cooking pot roast for dinner would be pretty boring. The corporate scene can be pretty annoying sometimes, but it has one redeeming quality... a paycheck. Also, one should gear one's career toward one's talents.. If one isn't a corporate personality, there's lots of other cool jobs out there... Perhaps teaching in a university, being a freelance writer, becoming a doctor, opening a law office, etc....

[Accygirl]

Why exactly... Please expand further...

[Accygirl]

Yes, I know that... This is why I would consider having a baby without a man.

[Accygirl]

That's very true... However, it does seem that many are even more threatened by the fact that women are entering the workplace and making more than they are..

[Dumb_Ox]

Yep... the guy who changes oil at Jiffy Lube has such a meaningful job.

More meaningful than that of a careerist material girl, I'd bet.

[skepsel]

Sarcastic? Yah think? It seems to me from your posts that you look down on life choices and career paths different from your own. You sound not unlike Hildabeast circa 1992 sneering at cookie bakers standing by their men.
How is a day of pencil pushing by an MBA more meaningful than a day at the Jiffy Lube? Now if you had said it was more munificently remunerative you might be on to something, then again maybe not.

A friend owns a Tire and Auto Service place. Fred worked hard, saved his money and owns it outright. The Bridgestone tire people just flew him and a group of owners to Japan for a meet and greet. Fred makes well over 120K a year, employs 10 or 12 men and women with families and he's a damn good mechanic too.
Another friend is a yard manager for a large building supply company, makes 70K year, he's worked for the company for over 18 years, started as a tractor trailer operator. In that time he supported 4 kids, a wife and her parents as well his own parents.
About 5 years he ago started over from scratch after the first wife decided she wasn't fulfilled and wanted to marry the old flame from high school. Arni got the keys to the old truck, the coupon book for the new one and a fistful of unpaid bills to go with the child support orders as the deppities supervised his departure.

When you were a puling infant my friends and I spent weeks at a time in the woods of the Fulda Gap waiting to drop a bridge in the Bear's face if he decided to come, all for the princely sum of $450/month.

Meaningful is in the eye of the beholder darlin'.

[Accygirl]

"But she is bitterly unhappy, and I don't particularly admire *that*."
She's bitterly unhappy because she's a liberal, not because she's single...

"You can aim for something less in salary and still live quite a good life."
I'm sure that there's Peace Corp volunteers, nurses, teachers, and police officers who are happy with their lives because they chose their profession and are highly trained in it. However, I'm also sure that there's many factory workers, burger flippers, and Walmart cashiers who wish that they went to college... Frankly, I think that there's nothing wrong with people aspiring to be teachers or nurses. (I actually find male nurses and teachers extra sexy, because of their compassion for others). What I do find unsexy is someonme willing to spend their lives in a dead end, minimum wage or near minimum wage job. It seems like unfortunately many of the single men out there are just such types of people...

"You are meant to be more than a baby machine, yes; but you are also meant to be more than a cog in a machine run for someone else's profit."

I think that unfortunately many posters on this board see women as no more than baby making machines... I find it horrible in this day and age that men in the U.S. would be that offended by the fact that women have a career.

I do agree with you that people shouldn't be "cogs" in the corporate machine though. It's very important that people switch jobs (and perhaps companies) at least every three years, which is why I'm applying to grad. school right now. It takes about a year to learn a job and a year to make your mark on it... So by the second year one should be looking for more opportunities... This makes you in charge of your career, not the corporation.

"And there are rewards as well as regrets possible on either side. Don't jump to a conclusion before talking to people who have actually taken both paths."

I do have admiration for women who decide to take care of their families rather than pursue a career; however, I do believe that they need to have a back up plan so that they're not screwed if their husband dies or divorces them... Which is why I feel sorry for women who don't take the time to at least get a college degree in a practical field before getting married. Frankly, nobody should be getting married at nineteen years old.