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We are in a war to the death – craven concessions won't win it (Must Read)
Telegraph.co.uk ^ | 11/27/2006 | Janet Daley

Posted on 11/27/2006 5:27:02 AM PST by Dark Skies

Who would have thought it? Half of Europe – the half that was so smug about having buried God several generations ago – is waiting in real trepidation for the outcome of a theological argument. When Pope Benedict XVI flies to Turkey tomorrow, he will embody the most potentially incendiary confrontation between Islam and the West since the defeat of the Turks at Vienna in 1683 brought an end to Islamic conquest in Europe.

The Pope will take with him an understanding that at the root of our problems in dealing with the Islamist death cult, there is a fundamental debate to be had about the role of human reason in political affairs.

The remarks he made in a lecture in Regensburg, Germany, which implied that Islam rejected rationality while Christianity saw it as essential to faith were contentious (and almost certainly designed to be so), but they raised a question that almost no Western government has the courage to ask, let alone answer. How is a liberal democracy to deal with an illiberal religious minority in its midst? advertisement

To understand the life-or-death significance of what the Pope does and says when he arrives in Istanbul, it is necessary to see this confrontation for what it is. This will involve some traumatic re-adjustment for most of the opinion-forming class in Britain. The first assumption that will have to go is the premise that Islamist terrorism can be understood in pragmatic, politically rational terms: in other words, that it can be addressed with the usual mechanisms of negotiation, concession and amended policy.

The most readily accepted version of this is that a change to our policy in the Middle East will remove the grievances that "fuel" Muslim terrorism. The Cabinet has apparently been advised that all foreign policy decisions over the next decade should have the goal of thwarting terrorism in Britain and that this should involve "a significant reduction in the number and intensity of the regional conflicts that fuel terror activity". So Britain is contemplating constructing a foreign policy, specifically in the Middle East, that is designed to give in to terrorist blackmail.

Never mind that the hereditary grievance of almost all British-born Muslim terrorists is the Kashmir question, to which the almost entirely irrelevant Palestine issue has been tacked on by political manipulators with larger ambitions. (The easiest way to make a connection between the Palestine-Israel conflict and the problem of Kashmir is to construct a global theory of persecution in which British-born Muslims may see themselves as born into a victimhood perpetrated by all non-Muslim nations upon Islam.

That, as it happens, chimes perfectly with the true goal of Islamism, which is global supremacy.) So this ignominious posture – what you might call the "save our own skin; who cares what happens in the rest of the world?" view – is based on a false premise. It is not adjustments to our stance on Israel-Palestine that the international Islamist terror movement wants.

That demand was just a bin Laden afterthought that went down a treat with the old reliable anti-Semitic interest in Europe. What Islamic fundamentalism plans to achieve (and it has made no secret of it) is a righting of the great wrong of 1492, when the Muslims were expelled from Spain: a return of the Caliphate, the destruction of corrupt Western values, and the establishment of Sharia law in all countries where Muslims reside. That is what we are up against.

The Pope characterised it as a battle between reason and unreason. Scholars may debate the theological and historical soundness of his analysis. But what is indisputable is that this is not an argument that is within the bounds of diplomatic give and take, the traditional stuff of international policy argy-bargy. What we could plausibly offer to the enemy, even at our most craven, would never be sufficient.

What is being demanded is the surrender of everything that Western democracy regards as sacred: even, ironically, the freedom to practise one's own religion, which, at the moment, is so useful to Muslim activists. We are forced to accept the Islamist movement's own estimation of the conflict: this is a war to the death, or until Islamism decides to call a halt.

But we do not have to accept all that Islamism claims for itself: most importantly, the idea that it alone embodies the true principles of its faith. The argument that the Islamic religion is inherently violent, which the Pope was thought to have supported in his Regensburg lecture, is academic, in both the literal and metaphorical senses.

What matters for us now is that a great many Muslims – including some enthusiastic converts who cannot even lay claim to a life history of persecution or injustice for their beliefs – are prepared to use their religious affiliation as a justification to commit mass murder. How are we to deal with this? There is only one way: we must, with the co-operation of the Muslim majority, separate the faith from its violent exponents.

Liberal democracy reached an understanding with religion a long time ago: your right, as a citizen, to observe your faith without persecution will be explicitly protected by the state. In return, you will agree to make your peace with the civil law and respect the rights of others to pursue their beliefs. That's the deal. We cannot make exceptions either by removing Muslims who accept their side of the bargain from that protection, or by permitting those who refuse to accept it to flout our law (on, say, sexual equality or the overt slavery of forced marriages).

As Caroline Cox and John Marks argue in their book The West, Islam and Islamism, republished in a new edition by Civitas this week, it is imperative that we distinguish between the Islamic faith and Islamist ideology. If we accept – or even countenance – the view that the two are indistinguishable, we will either be paralysed by our own democratic commitment to religious freedom or forced to engage in all-out religious war.

If a majority of the Muslim community is prepared to separate itself, clearly and explicitly, from the terrorist faction, then we have a chance. If it is not, if it is swept up in the glamour of international victim status and the dark victory of glorious death, then we face generations of bloodshed.

To some extent, this is up to us. Britain must have more to offer than domestic confusion and international cowardice. But it is up to conscientious Muslims as well, of whom much – perhaps more than is fair – must be demanded by way of intercession and courage.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; United Kingdom; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: 911; benedictxvi; britain; catholic; islam; muslim; pope; religionofpeace; rop; uk; vatican; wot
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1 posted on 11/27/2006 5:27:05 AM PST by Dark Skies
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To: Dark Skies

Amen. Pray for Benedict as he travels to the belly of the beast.


2 posted on 11/27/2006 5:31:42 AM PST by bboop (Stealth Tutor)
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To: Dark Skies; Interesting Times; SeraphimApprentice; zot

Thanks for the post.

Ping.


3 posted on 11/27/2006 5:33:51 AM PST by GreyFriar ( (3rd Armored Division - Spearhead))
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To: bboop

I wish he weren't going but, since he is, I hope security is extreme.


4 posted on 11/27/2006 5:33:56 AM PST by Dark Skies ("He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that" ... John Stuart Mill)
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To: Dark Skies

Thanks for posting this.


5 posted on 11/27/2006 5:34:51 AM PST by agere_contra
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To: Dark Skies

Pontificate and bloviate all you want,those people still
want to saw your stupid head off with a rusty knife!


6 posted on 11/27/2006 5:36:14 AM PST by claptrap (We've found a Witch can we burn her?)
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To: Dark Skies
As Caroline Cox and John Marks argue in their book The West, Islam and Islamism, republished in a new edition by Civitas this week, it is imperative that we distinguish between the Islamic faith and Islamist ideology. If we accept – or even countenance – the view that the two are indistinguishable, we will either be paralysed by our own democratic commitment to religious freedom or forced to engage in all-out religious war.

It's a religious war no matter how you dress the pig. We knew that from the Crusades.

7 posted on 11/27/2006 5:40:21 AM PST by cinives (On some planets what I do is considered normal.)
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To: cinives
It's a religious war no matter how you dress the pig. We knew that from the Crusades.

I agree. This writer's point/question is (even if she doesn't know it) purely rhetorical. It is indeed the religion pure and simple.

In the end, we may not be at war with muslim apostates and MINO's but we will IMO be at war with all islamic true believers.

8 posted on 11/27/2006 5:45:49 AM PST by Dark Skies ("He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that" ... John Stuart Mill)
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To: bboop

I got a bad feeling about him going there...


9 posted on 11/27/2006 5:47:25 AM PST by djf (Only immigration question needed: You coming here to JOIN US or to CONQUER US?)
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To: claptrap

Would you say that Churchill's warnings in the run-up to WWII were "pontificating and bloviating?"


10 posted on 11/27/2006 5:48:28 AM PST by Dark Skies ("He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that" ... John Stuart Mill)
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To: Dark Skies

If you believe that Islam is a religion, and that the Koran contains the holy word and you follow it, then you are an Islamofacist and hate "unbelievers".

It is inconsistent with the Koran for believers to act otherwise. A moderate Muslim is just an unawakened jihadist IMO. They are all enablers.


11 posted on 11/27/2006 5:52:10 AM PST by cinives (On some planets what I do is considered normal.)
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To: Dark Skies
Pope Benedict is God's gift to this age. He above other leaders sees clearly the threat of radical Islam and hopes to bring about internal change among Islamic theologians. He may be the Winston Churchill of the war against Islamic fascism.
12 posted on 11/27/2006 5:55:55 AM PST by The Great RJ ("Mir we bleiwen wat mir sin" or "We want to remain what we are." ..Luxembourg motto)
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To: Dark Skies
with the co-operation of the(peaceful Muslim majority,

There is no such majority.

13 posted on 11/27/2006 6:25:57 AM PST by arthurus (Better to fight them over THERE than over HERE)
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To: Dark Skies
If a majority of the Muslim community is prepared to separate itself, clearly and explicitly, from the terrorist faction, then we have a chance. If it is not, if it is swept up in the glamour of international victim status and the dark victory of glorious death, then we face generations of bloodshed.

Obviously, by this reckoning, we face generations of bloodshed or a whole lot of very destructive violence in a very short time period very soon, before the Saracens obtain nukes.

14 posted on 11/27/2006 6:29:55 AM PST by arthurus (Better to fight them over THERE than over HERE)
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To: cinives
It's a religious war no matter how you dress the pig. We knew that from the Crusades.

As I pointed out on another thread, today just happens to be the 911th anniversary of the declaration of the First Crusade.

15 posted on 11/27/2006 6:36:28 AM PST by Heatseeker
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Comment #16 Removed by Moderator

To: claptrap

You said it crudely but you are totally correct. No matter what is discussed, they will saw off your head while you are in mid-sentence of some rational discussion.


17 posted on 11/27/2006 6:49:26 AM PST by ecost
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To: Dark Skies
Good article. But is it a voice crying in the Eurabian wilderness?

What Islamic fundamentalism plans to achieve (and it has made no secret of it) is a righting of the great wrong of 1492, when the Muslims were expelled from Spain: a return of the Caliphate, the destruction of corrupt Western values, and the establishment of Sharia law in all countries where Muslims reside. That is what we are up against. -Janet Daley, UK Telegraph

18 posted on 11/27/2006 6:54:22 AM PST by Gritty (The average American doesn't comprehend the degree to which our nation is in peril-Gen Schoomaker)
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To: Dark Skies
If a majority of the Muslim community is prepared to separate itself, clearly and explicitly, from the terrorist faction, then we have a chance. If it is not, if it is swept up in the glamour of international victim status and the dark victory of glorious death, then we face generations of bloodshed.

So, either the fantasy of the "peaceful Muslim majority" comes true, or we bleed for generations?

Nonsense.

It won't take a year to do what must be done.

19 posted on 11/27/2006 7:00:30 AM PST by Jim Noble (To preserve the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity)
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To: Dark Skies

ping for later


20 posted on 11/27/2006 7:01:36 AM PST by ROLF of the HILL COUNTRY ( ISLAMA DELENDA EST!)
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