Greenback Gloom (Not?)

Because I don't believe that it is strictly necessary that the two be divorced. Don't you think it is possible to have one's moral bearings and guideposts inform one's economic decisions? For example, if one believes that a particular decision is a "good" or "right" one from a moral perspective, as well as being reasonable from an economic perspective, would such an approach be fair game for discussion as a basis for decision-making?

I will disagree with your generalization about abuses "being eliminated", unless "being eliminated" means by the destruction of the overall system. Too often in history we have seen socioeconomic conditions pushed to extremes wherein the entire system along with its associated political structure is brought to a crashing end by abuses. Political, social, and economic stability is most often attained by keeping the various factors away from the extremes, with competing forces maintaining some kind of rough balance so the middle ground becomes the sustainable, desirable mode of operation. Abuses can be self-correcting, for sure, but sometimes only by catastrophic and calamitous events.

My fear is that the present economic course in this country is pushing us towards one of these extremes, and that will cause unnecessary and avoidable stresses if we only have the wisdom to see it and act before it becomes uncorrectable except by extraordinary and traumatic means. It is a slow process and might take another generation to be fully manifest, but the signs are there if one views them with the eyes of history.

chimera, I feel as if I am talking to a child. Most of what you say is obvious, so obvious as to not need saying. I certainly agree with you on most of all you say. I was just trying to point you in the right direction for your solution. You have stated the answer yourself but then you continue to whine about it.

If your background is truly as you say (and I am sorry to say I no longer believe you) I can't imagine how you accumulated all that experience without learning basic reasoning ability.

Conversation is over from my perspective. I have said all I intend to say.

I feel I have to say it because I am continually amazed that so many on FR fail to grasp the solution, and evidently can't perceive the obvious based on their rants and subsequent taunts and name-calling. They are bipolar. They see things as one or the other: let greed and profit and making money be the God Of All, or, if you question that, you are somehow a DUer or a liberal or a socialist or a communist or you are advocating "government intervention". I don't know how many times on these threads I have been accused of advocating government intervention in business when I have never said anything of the kind, yet FReepers insist that it is the only way, other than a so-called "free market" with "free" trade (when in fact they don't advocate that at all). I have come to the conclusion that many on FR are simply obsessed with government.

Sorry to see that you slipped in some personal insults. No need for that, really. For a while I thought we might reach some common ground and understanding. Disappointing, unfortunately.

I apologize for my impatience but I said what I meant at the moment. Just as you experience frustration with some freepers who can't see the role played by morality, instead seeing it as either government control or unfettered free enterprise, I felt the same frustration with you.

My point was what, imo, was your inability to see the difference in abuse of free enterprise and the system itself. The constant referral to greed, greedy CEO's, greedy corporations, etc., seemed to me to be a condemnation of the whole idea. I was simply saying they are separate categories, not that one was superior to or even separable from the other.

Morality is the basis for all else we do in an orderly society. Some adhere to the rules but many don't. Also, R. Buckminster Fuller said that free enterprise has the unique ability to transfer the selfish desires of the individual into a good for the whole of society. I agree with that.

For the record, I condemn the abuses of the system of free enterprise and capitalism, not the systems themselves. It has been my experience that they can be great and mighty engines for beneficent purposes. I have seen and experienced that. Likewise, like many, I have seen and experienced the abusive aspects. All I have ever advocated is that, when possible, people in positions of economic power take into account things other than simply making the most money in the shortest amount of time. Yes, a simple concept, perhaps stating the obvious (bear with me on that). But it always surprises me how many people never even consider that aspect. For them, it's like, "gee, I never thought of that", or "Bah! That will never work...", without even fairly considering the notion.

I will have to think further about your Fuller quotation. I had not heard it before but it merits further thought, perhaps the subject of another thread (with a cross-posting to morality and ethics).

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