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Electronic Voting Can't Be Trusted
Sun-Sentinel ^ | 29 November 2006 | Norma Fisher

Posted on 11/29/2006 11:14:22 AM PST by lifelong_republican

"...These machines must go. There is no way to know if one's vote is accurately accounted for..."

(Excerpt) Read more at sun-sentinel.com ...


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: diebold; eavesdropping; fraud; nationalsecurity; ohnonotagain; playadifferenttune; representation; spyware; trojanhorse; vote; voter; wishitintocornfield
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They're designed, built, programmed, and operated in secrecy. They're unreliable and known to lose, switch, and fake votes. The United States of America should be setting an example of clean elections for the world.
1 posted on 11/29/2006 11:14:24 AM PST by lifelong_republican
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To: lifelong_republican

where was all this concern BEFORE they were mandated? whining after the fact is just plain silly. should have made noise BEFORE. some of us did, but hardly enough.


2 posted on 11/29/2006 11:17:27 AM PST by camle (keep your mind open and somebody will fill it full of something for you)
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To: lifelong_republican
Thanks for the DU-style paranoia.

Now, back to reality.

3 posted on 11/29/2006 11:18:35 AM PST by wideawake ("The nation which forgets its defenders will itself be forgotten." - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: lifelong_republican

a letter to the editor ? concrete solid evidence.


4 posted on 11/29/2006 11:18:46 AM PST by stylin19a ("Klaatu Barada Nikto")
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To: lifelong_republican
There is no way to know if one's vote is accurately accounted for.

"Duh!" (Nice to see someone else with a grasp of the obvious.)

5 posted on 11/29/2006 11:21:09 AM PST by newgeezer (When encryption is outlawed, oiue dixozl woeiru sosdid kxz todks.)
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To: lifelong_republican

The Activism sidebar is reserved for Free Republic chapters - not letters to the Editor.

AM.


6 posted on 11/29/2006 11:23:15 AM PST by Admin Moderator
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To: lifelong_republican
OK! But first a little Foggy Mountain Breakdown..


7 posted on 11/29/2006 11:24:06 AM PST by Jaxter ("Vivit Post Funera Virtus")
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To: JulieRNR21; kinganamort; katherineisgreat; floriduh voter; summer; Goldwater Girl; windchime; ...
This is rich. The same whiny liberals who made such a big deal over the problem with the (democrat designed and administered) paper ballots, and who were instrumental in getting these electronic machines installed, now whine about "the lack of a paper trail". Why? Because the equipment change still doesn't allow them to win all the elections they wanted to. So it's back to paper, I guess, which still won't work, and so it goes.

This whole charade is happening in my AO, where the dems are up in arms over Vern Buchanan's (Repub) victory over Christine Jennings. A narrow win, but a win nonetheless. Of course, it's a crack wide enough to fit some high-profile lawyer into.

Let it be noted that the same machinery in the same election handed Bill Nelson another six years in the Senate. But -- sssshhhh! Don't mention that.

Pathetic.

Florida Freeper


8 posted on 11/29/2006 11:24:23 AM PST by Joe Brower (The Constitution defines Conservatism. *NRA*)
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To: camle

This all came about because there was a rush to judgement after the 2000 Florida election, and concerns about hanging chads and dimpled chads and the fact that computer punch card voting machines don't give perfect results. So a decision was made, helped in part by the Help America Vote Act, that computerized voting machines are what we need to get the most accurate vote count.

The consensus even among some Republicans after Florida was that there are problems with the punch card type systems or the old fashioned voting machines where you pull the levers behind a curtain and vote that way.

So there are unintended consequences with these new machines. Maybe some prefer lack of any paper trail or recounting ability.


While the punch cards aren't perfect, let's remember that there was hardly any shift in the Florida recount. The first vote count was very accurate. On Election Night 2000, Bush won Florida by 1,900 votes. After all the hanging chad dimpled chad nonsense, the official vote count showed Bush ahead by 537 votes. So about 1,300 votes out of 6 million cast were reversed by Democrats eager to find as many hanging chads as possible. Percentage wise, it was a miniscule change.


9 posted on 11/29/2006 11:24:49 AM PST by Dilbert San Diego
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To: lifelong_republican

OK let's re-vote.


10 posted on 11/29/2006 11:25:26 AM PST by rhombus
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To: lifelong_republican
..."known to lose, switch and fake" votes? "Known" by whom? Is it like the "well known fact" that Irish are drunks, blacks are lazy, Jews are greedy, Poles are stupid, Italians are criminals, and Democrats are for the working man?

Document your sources, please. Lifelong, maybe, but Republican? You sound as Republican as a "people's republic".

We know the RATS want paper ballots because they are much easier to fake.

11 posted on 11/29/2006 11:26:06 AM PST by JimRed ("Hey, hey, Teddy K., how many girls did you drown today?" (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help m)
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To: Dilbert San Diego

the easiest and most reliable and verifiable method doesn't use electricity. paper ballots.


12 posted on 11/29/2006 11:27:14 AM PST by camle (keep your mind open and somebody will fill it full of something for you)
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To: lifelong_republican
Electronic Voting Can't Be Trusted

Translation: the Dem'crats have not learned yet how to hack into the recording capabilities on these electronic voting machines, so they are "unfair".

13 posted on 11/29/2006 11:29:03 AM PST by alloysteel (Facts do not cease to exist, just because they are ignored. - Aldous Huxley)
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To: Jaxter

One fiddle, two banjoes, and seven firearms? What were they playing, the 1812 Overture?


14 posted on 11/29/2006 11:29:38 AM PST by Yo-Yo (USAF, TAC, 12th AF, 366 TFW, 366 MG, 366 CRS, Mtn Home AFB, 1978-81)
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To: lifelong_republican
lifelong_republican, are you the same life long republican that I see quoted so much in the MSM, and ocassionally call in on the Rush Limbaugh show?

Welcome to FreeRepublic.

15 posted on 11/29/2006 11:32:41 AM PST by Paradox (American Conservatives: Keeping the world safe for Liberalism.)
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To: lifelong_republican
They're designed, built, programmed, and operated in secrecy. They're unreliable and known to lose, switch, and fake votes. The United States of America should be setting an example of clean elections for the world.

So are your local ATMs, yet the dipsticks trust them.

How often did we hear the moonbat libs speak glowingly of ATMs versus punch card technology in 2000?

16 posted on 11/29/2006 11:35:20 AM PST by Doctor Raoul (Difference between the CIA and the Free Clinic is that the Free Clinic knows how to stop a leak.)
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To: lifelong_republican

I read that the 18,000 undervotes in Sarasota County were mostly from Democrats.


17 posted on 11/29/2006 11:35:52 AM PST by Retired Chemist
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To: lifelong_republican

"They're designed, built, programmed, and operated in secrecy. They're unreliable and known to lose, switch, and fake votes. The United States of America should be setting an example of clean elections for the world."

I couldn't agree more.
As a citizen, I realize my vote is not worth much, but it is a vote, and it is mine. Undermine the integrity of the vote and we have nothing. It will be the fall of America.


18 posted on 11/29/2006 11:35:53 AM PST by brownsfan (It's not a war on terror... it's a war with islam.)
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To: lifelong_republican
Welcome Jeb Eddy.
19 posted on 11/29/2006 11:36:05 AM PST by Doctor Raoul (Difference between the CIA and the Free Clinic is that the Free Clinic knows how to stop a leak.)
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To: lifelong_republican

Well it is a certainty that paper ballots can NEVER be lost, swithced or faked in any way. /sarcasm.


20 posted on 11/29/2006 11:37:30 AM PST by subterfuge (Tolerance has become the greatest virtue, and hypocrisy the worst character defect.)
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To: lifelong_republican
You can thank the Dems of Palm county Florida for the main thrust of the movement to make the counting of one's vote an electronic certainty. After all, they couldn't find their backsides with both hands let alone draw a line between two points on a ballot.

Couple this with the fact that the Dems insist on trying to get all close elections into a court, where they have a chance to finagle the outcome.

If banks can accurately keep track of who you are and all of your banking business, most of the time without missing a beat, electronic voting systems can be made that way. Further, audit trails and duplicate, parallel counts should be a piece of cake.

It's my opinion that perfect, accurate, "LEGAL" vote counting will not ever happen because the Dems don't really want it and certain judges won't keep their hands off it.

21 posted on 11/29/2006 11:38:41 AM PST by Banjoguy (The words "Democrat" and democratic are not interchangable.)
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To: lifelong_republican
DIEBOLD!!!!!!!!!


22 posted on 11/29/2006 11:41:05 AM PST by The_Victor (If all I want is a warm feeling, I should just wet my pants.)
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To: lifelong_republican
[ "...These machines must go. There is no way to know if one's vote is accurately accounted for..." ]

Aliens(both legal and illegal) VOTING is more(as much) of a problem..
Strange that republican leadership could care less about vote fraud..
Very strange..

23 posted on 11/29/2006 11:54:16 AM PST by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole)
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To: wideawake
Thanks for the DU-style paranoia.

This must have been GW's idea, else we would be on those things like a dog on a bone.

24 posted on 11/29/2006 12:00:09 PM PST by itsahoot (If the GOP does not do something about immigration, immigration will do something about the GOP)
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To: lifelong_republican

The "Purple Finger" method seems to work!


25 posted on 11/29/2006 12:01:47 PM PST by Don Corleone (Leave the gun..take the cannoli)
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To: Doctor Raoul

The difference is that the manufacturers of ATMs and associated equipment are responsible to the banks for any problems that may arise. They, and the banks, have a very strong financial incentive to ensure that their sytems are secure and reliable. Plus, of course, if something does go wrong the bank will (eventually) take care of it for you. Is any of this true of voting machines?


26 posted on 11/29/2006 12:03:05 PM PST by -YYZ-
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To: hosepipe
Strange that republican leadership could care less about vote fraud.. Very strange..

Ridiculous statement.

The number one source of vote fraud is people voting multiple times and ineligible people voting.

The obvious fix to this is photo ID requirements, which the GOP has quite vocally advocated and which has been actively combatted by Democrat judges at every turn.

There is not one single documented case of voter fraud with manipulation of modern voting machines.

There are certainly hundreds, perhaps thousands, of documented cases of vote fraud through multiple registrations, dead men voting, etc.

Focus.

27 posted on 11/29/2006 12:07:15 PM PST by wideawake ("The nation which forgets its defenders will itself be forgotten." - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: JimRed
We know the RATS want paper ballots because they are much easier to fake.

And they wanted voting machine in Chicago back in the day, for what reason? I seem to forget.

You will never stop fraud until every voter is identified and linked to they ballot they cast. To be honest how many people don't already know how you voted? Secret ballot my rear, that is why we have campaign rallies.

28 posted on 11/29/2006 12:08:24 PM PST by itsahoot (If the GOP does not do something about immigration, immigration will do something about the GOP)
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To: wideawake
[ Ridiculous statement. / The number one source of vote fraud is people voting multiple times and ineligible people voting. ]

Like I just said.. Aliens voting(both legal and illegal) are ineligible.. They are not citizens.. therefore its vote fraud.. With a portion of 30+ million legal and illegal aliens VOTING.. One wonders how many of the very close Congressional races just won by a very small margin were won by votes of legal and illegal aliens..

Not caring is ridiculous.. and political suicide Bushbot style..

29 posted on 11/29/2006 12:19:17 PM PST by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole)
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To: hosepipe
Not caring is ridiculous..

That's a fantasy you've created in your mind.

GOP leadership cares and is leading the charge against fraudulent voting by advocating photo ID requirements.

Photo ID requirements are much cheaper than trying to deport every single illegal between now and the next election.

Get in the game.

30 posted on 11/29/2006 12:24:47 PM PST by wideawake ("The nation which forgets its defenders will itself be forgotten." - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: camle

If the democrats had of been mandating it then we would have made all kinds of noise. The Republicans did it so...Then it was OK. Now we lost control of the ballot box.


31 posted on 11/29/2006 12:31:40 PM PST by Revel
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To: wideawake
[ Photo ID requirements are much cheaper than trying to deport every single illegal between now and the next election. / Get in the game. ]

Photo ID's will never happen now.. the democrats are in charge.. Legal and Illegal aliens WILL BE democrats and the democrats know it.. Only MOST of the republicans do not know that.. especially in the White RINO House..

The cure is Not photo ids.. The cure is makeing Renting to or Employing illegals... illegal(enforced).. i.e make the renter or employee PROVE they are legal.. They(the illegals) will deport THEMSELVES.. Also forced deportation of any legals(and possibly their familys) proved to have voted..

Should be quite simple to force illegals to deport themselves.. at least the honest ones.. The dishonest ones would remain hiding.. For THEM.. a bounty might be a good thing.. You know capitalism.. Start the roach hunt..

32 posted on 11/29/2006 12:44:26 PM PST by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole)
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To: Joe Brower
The dims won't be happy until the ballots only have dim names on them.

In the service we used to talk about making things "GI proof". The dims need to make things "criminal, illegal alien,, non-English speaking, dimwit" proof.

33 posted on 11/29/2006 12:44:54 PM PST by Hazcat (Live to party, work to afford it.)
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To: Revel

I am a software engineer.

Any competent software engineer can make any computer say anthing they want it to say regardless of what the user inputs.

I can make the computer say global warming is happening, and give you the results to 10 decimal places.

I can make it give any vote totals I want no matter what actual voters input.

Trusting voting to computers is a ridiculous idea. About the only thing worse would be internet voting.


34 posted on 11/29/2006 12:49:11 PM PST by studly hungwell (Mohammad and Marx: Spreading mysery and death wherever their ideas go.)
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To: lifelong_republican

GREAT POST!

Just over half way down the page at this link is a lot more information on this issue...

http://www.madisonforum.org/need2know.htm

also-- here is an article that should be helpful also...

http://www.speakersummaries.madisonforum.org/2006/11/november_13_2006_garland_favor.html

THANKS!!


35 posted on 11/29/2006 1:06:16 PM PST by eeevil conservative (Religious Zealot from the Right Wing Church of Hate...............)
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To: Joe Brower

The State has checked the machines and did not find a problem....The same machines where used in other parts of the state and no problem....The under votes were simply folks turned off by the election on both individuals part.....They simply did not want to vote for either....Yet for Her it is still not enough...She is planning on taking it to the Democratic controlled congress and get them to mandate another election in our district.....They only want that in Sarasota....Sounds like Gore to me........


36 posted on 11/29/2006 2:04:10 PM PST by RNO1 (POW's Never Ever Have A Good Day)
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To: studly hungwell

The Dems in Sarasota and other parts of the state. Wanted computer voting...It just did not go their way.....


37 posted on 11/29/2006 2:05:55 PM PST by RNO1 (POW's Never Ever Have A Good Day)
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To: Retired Chemist
NO, they were Republicans who were not going to vote for Vern over the nasty race that took place.,...The person that they supported did not get the Republican nomination and it was one nasty election so they stayed home....There still is more Republicans in Sarasota than Dems but it is getting closer thanks to all the folks from the NE moving in here.....
38 posted on 11/29/2006 2:08:50 PM PST by RNO1 (POW's Never Ever Have A Good Day)
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To: -YYZ-
The difference is that the manufacturers of ATMs and associated equipment are responsible to the banks for any problems that may arise

Look up Mr. Rifkin. Hell that wasn' even ATM software.

Plus, of course, if something does go wrong the bank will (eventually) take care of it for you. Is any of this true of voting machines?

You're implying that the bank will find it and an election board won't.

Is any of this true of voting machines?

No better, no worse, as I said in my original post.

39 posted on 11/29/2006 4:15:55 PM PST by Doctor Raoul (Difference between the CIA and the Free Clinic is that the Free Clinic knows how to stop a leak.)
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To: camle
I appreciate the fact that you spoke up, before, and encourage you not to give up now.

You said:

"where was all this concern BEFORE they were mandated?"

Can you imagine someone at the planning session for the Boston Tea Party saying something to the effect that the Stamp Act was a fait accompli and that there'd be no point in tossing anything overboard?

There was in fact significant objection to the systems before they were implemented, even to the extent of numerous court actions. Some very powerful people want that particular fix in.

40 posted on 11/30/2006 6:14:08 AM PST by lifelong_republican (Valid Elections: The Idea of America)
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To: wideawake

I'm sure you would have avoided an empty attempt at a personal attack if you'd had the fortitude to consider the actual subject. I encourage you to learn more about the many ways electronic 'voting' systems involve vulnerability, unreliability, and excessive expense.


41 posted on 11/30/2006 6:15:38 AM PST by lifelong_republican (Valid Elections: The Idea of America)
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To: stylin19a

The statements being offered to you are easily confirmed, and if you would like assistance with recommendations for search engine use and specific links, I'll be happy to do whatever I can to assist you with this.


42 posted on 11/30/2006 6:16:45 AM PST by lifelong_republican (Valid Elections: The Idea of America)
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To: newgeezer
You said that which is both clever and most apropos:

""Duh!" (Nice to see someone else with a grasp of the obvious.)"

43 posted on 11/30/2006 6:19:41 AM PST by lifelong_republican (Valid Elections: The Idea of America)
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To: Admin Moderator

Thank you for this information, which I will remember.


44 posted on 11/30/2006 6:20:37 AM PST by lifelong_republican (Valid Elections: The Idea of America)
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To: Joe Brower

It is not only possible to make elections work, so that the public can scrutinize the accurate counts of voter generated and verified tangilbe ballots, it's what we owe our legacy as American citizens.


45 posted on 11/30/2006 6:22:26 AM PST by lifelong_republican (Valid Elections: The Idea of America)
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To: lifelong_republican

the strategy isNOT to have inviolable electios, but to have a handle upon challenging their outcome when they don't go your way.

both sides do this.


46 posted on 11/30/2006 6:22:37 AM PST by camle (keep your mind open and somebody will fill it full of something for you)
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To: rhombus
I like what you said:

"OK let's re-vote"

I agree. This time, with real physical ballots prepared directly by the voters and constantly observed throughout the public counting processes. It would be a lot harder for the corrupt Democrats of the Rendell mob in Pennsylvania to steal votes from Senator Santorum.

47 posted on 11/30/2006 6:25:13 AM PST by lifelong_republican (Valid Elections: The Idea of America)
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To: JimRed

If you would do at least a little investigation using the web, for example, you would be able to find out about the massive increases in undervote rates, the reports from voters of seeing their choices changed, and the lawsuits and other actions resulting from thousands of votes being lost by failures of election equipment. To make it even easier for you, I can provide you with data specific to your (or any other) state, if you like. Let me know. Thanks.

If you're ready to get started now, use this link:

http://www.votersunite.org/info/previousmessups.asp

Perhaps you approve of the way the corrupt Democrats in Pennsylvania robbed Senator Santorum of votes, but we as Republicans here in PA are unwilling to accept it.


48 posted on 11/30/2006 6:31:23 AM PST by lifelong_republican (Valid Elections: The Idea of America)
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To: alloysteel

The Democrats had their "buttons" switching votes from Santorum to Casey this past election, so I don't see how your statement would be applicable.


49 posted on 11/30/2006 6:32:51 AM PST by lifelong_republican (Valid Elections: The Idea of America)
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To: Paradox

Thank you for the welcome. It's appreciated. I have been quoted in my local newspaper, and as a Republican, but I haven't called in to Rush's show since his oxycontin episode. I realize it's a health problem but I don't want to attempt communication through certain impairments.


50 posted on 11/30/2006 6:35:32 AM PST by lifelong_republican (Valid Elections: The Idea of America)
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